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Topic: Matheology § 224
Replies: 84   Last Post: Apr 20, 2013 4:43 PM

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Peter Percival

Posts: 20
Registered: 4/11/13
Re: Matheology § 224
Posted: Apr 13, 2013 5:18 PM
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Nam Nguyen wrote:

> On 13/04/2013 1:07 PM, Peter Percival wrote:
> >
> >
> > Nam Nguyen wrote:

> >>
> >> On 13/04/2013 12:47 PM, Peter Percival wrote:

> >>> Nam Nguyen wrote:
> >>>

> >>>>
> >>>> In my original thread that I'm certain Frederick is aware of:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.ai.philosophy/msg/58615203416c4d7e?hl=en
> >>>>
> >>>> Twice I clearly indicate what language I've been using in my
> >>>> effort about cGC:
> >>>>
> >>>> <quote>
> >>>>
> >>>> Arithmetic truths of the natural numbers (written in the language of
> >>>> arithmetic L(PA)) are supposed to be absolute, in the sense that they
> >>>> can NOT be undecidable,

> >>>
> >>> The Paris-Harrington Ramsey-like theorem can be stated in the language
> >>> of first order PA (FOPA) but it is not provable in FOPA. Nevertheless
> >>> it is true. See the last chapter of Barwise's Handbook.
> >>>

> >>>> can NOT be chosen at discretion, can NOT be
> >>>> of the nature "it's impossible to know".

> >>>
> >>> So, when you write not undecidable, do you mean in FOPA, or some larger
> >>> theory (like ZF)? As for chosen at discretion and impossible to know, I
> >>> do not know what they mean in the context of mathematics.
> >>>

> >>>> [...]
> >>>>
> >>>> Def-00: The natural numbers collectively is a language model
> >>>> [of L(PA)] of which the universe U is non-finite.
> >>>> </quote>
> >>>>
> >>>> So your complaint about me never letting Frederick know the language
> >>>> (hence its signature)

> >>>
> >>> Is it S,+,x,0 or <,S,+,x,0? Just say yes to one or the other, or no to
> >>> both.

> >>
> >> Please, Peter. Before we go further discussing, would you let me know
> >> if you understand my definitions Def-1 and Def-2, which would be
> >> important in this debate about cGC?

> >
> > Please, Nam. Before we go further discussing, would you let me know
> > if the signature is S,+,x,0 or <,S,+,x,0, which would be
> > important in this debate about cGC?

>
> That's a pathetic response from Peter on multiple accounts:
>
> (a) Def-1 and Def-2 were given by Nam on Peter's specific request
> on the the phrase relativity and Def-1 and Def-2 are _not_
> dependent on any version of the language of arithmetic.
>
> (b) In this thread _Nam has clarified already_ what language he has
> been using for cGC, and the like.
>
> (c) It does _NOT_ matter at all that Godel's language of arithmetic
> used for the naturals number doesn't include the symbol '<'.
> The argument about the relativity of the truth value of cGC
> rests with the fact a certain predicate/function _set_ of 2-tuples
> can't be defined in a finite manner or inductively, as Def-2
> mentions.
>
> Your (as well as fom's and Frederick's) insistence on the clarity
> of which of the 2 languages "S,+,x,0 or <,S,+,x,0" is only a
> buzzword smokescreen hiding the ignorance on the "_NOT_ matter at
> all" I've pointed out. But in any case, I've clarified in many
> occasions the language I used is FOL L(PA), of which the signature
> you do know (right?).


No, I know of more than one signature for PA (and I wouldn't be
surprised if there are others) so I'm asking you which of them you are
using.

> Now that you understand which of L(S,+,x,0) and L(<,S,+,x,0)

I don't know.

> I've been
> using for years,


I haven't been reading your posts for years.

> would you answer my question about Def-1, Def-2?


Date Subject Author
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Alan Smaill
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Frederick Williams
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Peter Percival
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Peter Percival
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Peter Percival
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Jesse F. Hughes
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Peter Percival
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
fom
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
fom
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
fom
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Jesse F. Hughes
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Jesse F. Hughes
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/16/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/16/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/16/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Jesse F. Hughes
4/16/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/16/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
fom
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
fom
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Jesse F. Hughes
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Jesse F. Hughes
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/20/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Frederick Williams
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Frederick Williams
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
fom
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Frederick Williams
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
fom
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
fom
4/18/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/18/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Frederick Williams
4/18/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/19/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Frederick Williams
4/19/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/20/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Frederick Williams
4/19/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Frederick Williams
4/19/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/20/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Frederick Williams
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Jesse F. Hughes
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Jesse F. Hughes
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology S 224
Peter Percival
4/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Peter Percival
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Frederick Williams
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Peter Percival
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Peter Percival
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Peter Percival
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Peter Percival
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Frederick Williams
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Frederick Williams
4/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
Peter Percival
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 224
namducnguyen

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