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Topic: closed universe, flat space?
Replies: 48   Last Post: May 5, 2013 2:45 PM

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Koobee Wublee

Posts: 1,417
Registered: 2/21/06
Re: closed universe, flat space?
Posted: Apr 24, 2013 5:08 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Apr 23, 12:23 pm, RichD <r_delaney2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Supposedly, our universe is closed and finite, although the
> geometry and topology isn't precisely known. This means
> a straight line (geodesic) traveler must return to his starting
> poiint, yes/no? Hence, curved space.


First, we need to consider how one would observe his own local space.
If his local space is curved, can he tell? Although this question
addresses the borderline with philosophy, common sense should say that
one cannot tell at all since his own set of rulers will be equally
curved. Thus, every observer will always observe his own local space
as being flat. Only after comparing with a remote space that one can
tell whose space is curved relative to the other. Curved space can
only be relative. Even if space curved back onto itself, one will
eventually return to his original position in his infinite future.
<shrug>

> At the same time, astronomers claim, that space is flat, to
> the precision of their measurements.


Cosmology does not fall into the domain of astronomy. Cosmology is
more like occult science where these guys try to create reality with
pure speculations. <shrug>

Static remote space will always be observed as flat. One can only
tell if the remote space is curved compared to his own local space by
observing the geodesic behavior of an object. <shrug>

Of course, this is not GR says. GR is voodooism. <shrug>

> Usually, this is
> accompanied by the comment that the universe is balanced
> between infinite expansion, or eventual collapse, we can't
> tell which.


With null vacuum density in mass, both the Newtonian universe and GR
will result in an eventual collapse of the universe. By allowing a
negative vacuum density, both will allow an expanding universe since
negative mass manifests antigravity. <shrug>

> So, space is closed, but also flat... back in my day, they
> had something called a logical contradiction, which was
> considered a bad thing, but I guess times change...
> viva progress -


That progress is assimilation of a religion in progress. It takes
several generations for a religion to take hold, but it takes longer
to wean these morons off that same religion. Better education seems
not to help. <shrug>



Date Subject Author
4/23/13
Read closed universe, flat space?
Rich Delaney
4/23/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Poutnik
4/24/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
4/29/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Rich Delaney
4/23/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
kenseto
4/24/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
JT
4/24/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
herbert glazier
4/24/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Double-A
4/23/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Nicolas Bonneel
4/29/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Rich Delaney
4/29/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Mike Terry
4/23/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
xxein
4/23/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/23/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Butch Malahide
4/23/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Newberry
4/24/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Koobee Wublee
4/24/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/24/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Koobee Wublee
4/24/13
Read space is locally curved, as has been measured
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/25/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/25/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
herbert glazier
4/25/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/25/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
bradguth@gmail.com
4/27/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/4/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
bradguth@gmail.com
5/5/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/25/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Koobee Wublee
4/25/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/25/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Koobee Wublee
4/25/13
Read closed universe, flat space, ignore Minkowski's worse nD geometry;
thank you
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/26/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space, ignore Minkowski's worse nD
geometry; thank you
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/27/13
Read curved space and/or curved time (time is the "real, scalar" part of
vector mechanics -- like a God-am clock
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/27/13
Read Re: curved space and/or curved time (time is the "real, scalar" part
of vector mechanics -- like a God-am clock
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/27/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Tom Roberts
4/27/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Koobee Wublee
4/27/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/29/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Rich Delaney
4/29/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/29/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Koobee Wublee
4/30/13
Read Kepler uncovered the curvature via his three orbital constraints
(reciprocal of diameter)
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/30/13
Read Minkowski was an otherwise-great geometer!
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/1/13
Read Minkowski, Minkowski, Minkowski -- say it, againsville
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/1/13
Read Kepler's cosmological curvature thingies
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/3/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Rich Delaney
5/4/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/4/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/4/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/5/13
Read Re: closed universe, flat space?
Koobee Wublee
5/5/13
Read eight to the bar -- Daddy!
Brian Q. Hutchings

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