Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by NCTM or The Math Forum.

Notice: We are no longer accepting new posts, but the forums will continue to be readable.

Topic: Torkel Franzen argues
Replies: 25   Last Post: May 17, 2013 3:52 PM

 Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
 Herman Rubin Posts: 399 Registered: 2/4/10
Re: Torkel Franzen argues
Posted: Apr 26, 2013 12:37 PM

On 2013-04-25, FredJeffries <fredjeffries@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 25, 8:25 am, Alan Smaill <sma...@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Newberry <newberr...@gmail.com> writes:
>> > Torkel Franzen argues that all the axioms of ZFC  are manifestly true
>> > the logic apparatus is truth preserving therefore all is good and the
>> > system is consistent.

>> Really??

>> Where did he make this claim?

> In "The Popular Impact of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem"

> http://www.ams.org/notices/200604/fea-franzen.pdf

> he says:

> "we can easily, indeed trivially, prove PA consistent using
> reasoning of a kind that mathematicians otherwise
> use without qualms in proving theorems of
> arithmetic. Basically, this easy consistency proof observes
> that all theorems of PA are derived by valid
> logical reasoning from basic principles true of the
> natural numbers, so no contradiction is derivable in PA"

Mathematicians are willing to assume PA is consistent. The
inconsistency of PA would mean that the basic principles
of the natural numbers are inconsistent.

I recommend that the discussion of the natural numbers from
the basic principles be taught very early, and addition, etc.,
be derived from them. They LOOK obvious. But if it is
consistent, we know we cannot prove it.

Now PA has been proved consistent in ZF or NBG, but then that
brings the consistency of axioms for set theory.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

Date Subject Author
4/24/13 Newberry
4/25/13 Bill Taylor
4/25/13 Alan Smaill
4/25/13 FredJeffries@gmail.com
4/25/13 ross.finlayson@gmail.com
4/25/13 scattered
4/26/13 Herman Rubin
4/26/13 namducnguyen
4/26/13 namducnguyen
5/4/13 Frederick Williams
5/4/13 namducnguyen
5/5/13 Frederick Williams
5/8/13 Frederick Williams
5/8/13 namducnguyen
5/8/13 namducnguyen
5/15/13 Frederick Williams
5/17/13 namducnguyen
5/15/13 Frederick Williams
5/4/13 fom
5/5/13 namducnguyen
5/5/13 fom
5/5/13 namducnguyen
5/5/13 Frederick Williams
5/5/13 fom
4/26/13 fom