Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » mathedcc

Topic: Re: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies
#2 - ADDENDUM #2

Replies: 21   Last Post: May 5, 2013 9:47 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Alain Schremmer

Posts: 861
Registered: 10/10/05
Re: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Posted: May 3, 2013 11:05 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

I completely agree with Mahler.

I would just add another thing that "needs fixing": we are not really
giving the huge majority of the students a real choice as we are in
effect channeling them.

Regards
--schremmer

On May 3, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Phil Mahler wrote:

>> Half of all freshmen need remediation? Plainly, something has
>> gone terribly wrong...

>
> I am not convinced that something has gone terribly wrong, though I
> agree that there are things that need fixing. Things have always
> been terribly wrong, depending on one's interpretation of what is
> right.
>
> Consider these facts (I know that all facts are disputable);
>
> In 1932 20% of 12th-grade students could compute 2.1% of 60.
> In 1937 Taylor studied more than 2000 freshmen in teachers' colleges
> and found that more than half could not divide 175 by 0.35.
> The rate of college enrollment immediately after high school
> completion increased from 49% in 1972 to 70% by 2009.
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Now consider that 1932 a much smaller percentage of students went to
> high school. 12th grade was rare. In 1947 trigonometry was a college
> freshman level course, at least according to a long-ago then-older
> colleague who was a math major at a large mid-western university.
> I am sure that in the good old days lots of people couldn't compute.
> Think about the demographics of the extra 21% that go to college
> since 1972. I doubt if these come from the top of their high school
> class. But once, they had a shot at getting a job anyway.
>
> A lot of the remediation we demand is in the area of hand
> calculation of decimals and fractions. Of students that have been
> using calculators for the last 5 years or more. When we are done we
> often still don't know if they can get correct answers with a
> calculator, though that is what they will use for the rest of their
> life.
> And also we remediate algebra that most don't really need (I don't
> mean the basics of variables, signed numbers, linear equations).
>
> For me, there are challenges, important ones, but I think some of
> them are misdirected.
>
> Phil
>
> ****************************************************************************
> * To post to the list: email mathedcc@mathforum.org *
> * To unsubscribe, email the message "unsubscribe mathedcc" to majordomo@mathforum.org
> *
> * Archives at http://mathforum.org/kb/forum.jspa?forumID=184 *
> ****************************************************************************


****************************************************************************
* To post to the list: email mathedcc@mathforum.org *
* To unsubscribe, email the message "unsubscribe mathedcc" to majordomo@mathforum.org *
* Archives at http://mathforum.org/kb/forum.jspa?forumID=184 *
****************************************************************************


Date Subject Author
4/27/13
Read Re: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies
#2 - ADDENDUM #2
Richard Hake
4/29/13
Read Re: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Haim
4/30/13
Read Re: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Haim
4/30/13
Read RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2
- ADDENDUM #2
Petrak, Daniel G.
4/30/13
Read Re: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Haim
5/2/13
Read RE: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies
#2 - ADDENDUM #2
Wayne Mackey
5/3/13
Read RE: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies
#2 - ADDENDUM #2
Phil Mahler
5/3/13
Read Re: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Alain Schremmer
5/3/13
Read Re: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Guy Brandenburg
5/3/13
Read Re: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Alain Schremmer
5/3/13
Read RE: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of
Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
RotmanJ
5/3/13
Read Re: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Haim
5/3/13
Read Re: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies
#2 - ADDENDUM #2
Bill Marsh
5/3/13
Read Re: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Haim
5/3/13
Read Re: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies
#2 - ADDENDUM #2
Bill Marsh
5/3/13
Read Re: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Haim
5/3/13
Read RE: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies
#2 - ADDENDUM #2
Wayne Mackey
5/3/13
Read Re: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Haim
5/5/13
Read RE: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies
#2 - ADDENDUM #2
Phil Mahler
5/5/13
Read RE: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies
#2 - ADDENDUM #2
Gilligan, Lawrence \(gilliglg\)
5/5/13
Read Re: RE: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Haim
4/30/13
Read Re: David Berliner on "A Nation at Risk": Three Decades of Lies #2 - ADDENDUM #2
Haim

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.