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Topic: Matheology � 258
Replies: 104   Last Post: May 5, 2013 2:26 PM

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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de

Posts: 16,178
Registered: 1/29/05
Re: Matheology § 258
Posted: May 4, 2013 4:11 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On 4 Mai, 20:31, Dan <dan.ms.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:


> For the record , language is man-made . Mathematics is not .Its
> universality is proof enough.


Mathematics is, in large parts, discourse between mathematicians. That
requires a language that can be spoken and understood, i.e., a finite
language.
>
> >Either you have digits 1 at finite positions only. Then your number is
> >in the list, since all finite positions are covered. (You cannot find
> >that line. This is the same as: For every n there are infinitely many
> >naturals m > n. But you cannot find those which are larger than all n.
> >(Since there are not "all" n.))
> >Or you have digits at larger than all finite positions. Then you
> >cannot replace them and cannot apply Cantor's argument.

>
> Ok . Let's say I accept your argument . We can't say that 0.11111....
> is not in the list with finite digits only . Finitude does not permit
> us to make that distinction .


The list contains, by definition and by sober thinking, all digits
that have natural indices. There is no choice to accept it or not.
>
> I accept your argument . There are no naturals larger than all n.
> And , since we index numbers in our list by naturals,
>
> 1.  0.1
> 2.  0.11
> 3.  0.111
> 4............
> 5.
> .
> .
>
> There are no indices larger than all n .


Correct.

> Now , since 0.11111.....  is on our list , the question is:
> At what index n is  0.11111.....  on our list?


It is not in our list since it has no chance to surpass all entries of
the list. It has only a finite definition like 1/9 or any other nmae
that you can write here in order to identify it.

> Since there are no numbers larger than all naturals,  0.11111.... is
> not on the list .


Correct. And it will not gain a place in the list by any digit
substitution. It is a limit that has no decimal representation like
sqrt(2) and, by the way, like every real number. You cannot identify
any real number, not even 0, by writing only its sequence of digits.
You dod not get ready, since the sequence is infinite, and the reader
does not know, after having read 0.000000000000000000000000000 and so
on, for a large part of the day, whether it will continue with zeros
or not. Every real needs a finite definition. When using terminating
reals we implicitly use the finite definition that only zeros will
follow.

Therefore there are no actually infinite sequences at all - and there
is no Cantor-list, other than finitely defined lists.

Regards, WM


Date Subject Author
4/29/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
4/29/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/29/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
4/30/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/30/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/30/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/13
Read Re: WMytheologist � 258
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/13
Read Re: WM's ignorance self-revealed!
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
JT
5/2/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
Ed Prochak
5/2/13
Read Re: Matheology � 666
Virgil
5/2/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/2/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology � 666
Virgil
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
LudovicoVan
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
fom
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
Ralf Bader
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/5/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
fom
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
5/4/13
Read Re: WMytheology � 258
Virgil
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
trj
5/4/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
fom
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
fom
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
gus gassmann
5/3/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/2/13
Read Re: WMytheology � 777
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: WMYtheology � 258
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: WMYtheology § 258
JT
5/1/13
Read Re: WMYtheology � 258
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: WMYtheology § 258
JT
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
rt servo
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/13
Read Re: WMytheology � 258
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: WMytheology � 258
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
5/1/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
4/30/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
4/30/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil
4/29/13
Read Re: Matheology § 258
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
4/29/13
Read Re: Matheology � 258
Virgil

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