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Topic: Chapt17 Telescope experiments as distance tool #1574 ATOM TOTALITY
5th ed

Replies: 19   Last Post: May 24, 2013 7:25 PM

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gk@gmail.com

Posts: 134
Registered: 11/12/12
Re: Chapt17 Enrico! . Call someone. PRONTO! My Behind is too Big and
I Can't get out of the Tub. Get a Crew to Pull me Out , Enrico.

Posted: May 14, 2013 4:42 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Monday, May 13, 2013 10:48:38 PM UTC-7, Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
> In May of 2010
>
> Enrico wrote:
>
>
>
>
>

> > Finding anything at all that addresses your question about
>
> > limitations on what a telescope can see (resolve) turned out
>
> > to be harder than I expected.
>
>
>
> Yes, thanks for you help Enrico. I am not surprized at all that
>
> astronomers never realized that the telescope and all the Physics
>
> laws on Optics were never seen as their best and finest measure
>
> of distance in the Cosmos.
>
>
>
>
>
> I am guessing, roughly, that no telescope on Earth is able to see a
>
> galaxy beyond 200 million light years away. And that the furthest
>
> possible sighting of a supernova from Earth with our finest
>
> telescope
>
> is 400 million light years away.
>
>
>
>
>
> So my guess is that 400 million light years is the furthest distance
>
> in
>
> astronomy that we can "know about."
>
>
>
>
>
> This would mean that the surveys by Jarrett and Juric et al, are
>
> mappings
>
> that are all confined to 400 million light years. And not our
>
> current
>
> silly idea that our telescopes are peering back to 13 billion light
>
> years.
>
>
>
>
>
> So all the surveys and mappings of the Cosmos have to take place
>
> within 400 million light years distance because our telescopes can
>
> see these objects and if we can see them in the telescope, means
>
> they are no further than 400 million light years.
>
>
>

> > http://atomic-molecular-optical-physics.suite101.com/article.cfm/can_...
>
>
>
>
>

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Deep_Field
>
> > Read the section on Data Processing
>
> > Note assumptions made about Universal Expansion
>
>
>
>
>

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_telescope
>
> > Technical stuff, formulas.
>
> > Scroll down about 1/3 way to:
>
>
>
>
>

> > "Angular resolution
>
> > Ignoring blurring of the image by turbulence in the atmosphere
>
> > (atmospheric seeing) and optical imperfections of the telescope,
>
> the
>

> > angular resolution of an optical telescope is determined by the
>
> > diameter of the objective, termed its "aperture" (the primary
>
> mirror,
>

> > or lens.) The Rayleigh criterion for the resolution limit áR (in
>
> > radians) is given by"
>
>
>
>
>

> > <Snipped math - not sure if it would display here>
>
>
>
>
>

> > "Essentially; the larger the aperture, the better the angular
>
> > resolution"
>
>
>
>
>

> > "It should be noted that the resolution is NOT given by the maximum
>
> > magnification (or "power") of a telescope. Telescopes marketed by
>
> > giving high values of the maximum power often deliver poor
>
> images."
>
>
>
>
>

> >                          Enrico
>
>
>
> Yes, resolution comes back to memory. There is another idea or
>
> concept
>
> in Physics when I took Optics in school. I sort of forgotten the
>
> concept
>
> or it is vague to me now. It went along the lines of something
>
> called
>
> "coherence of light". Meaning that the flashlight on Pluto directed
>
> to
>
> the
>
> Hubble Space Telescope may not be resolved by the telescope, but if
>
> I
>
> had
>
> a laser light flashlight, that Hubble telescope would then be able
>
> to
>
> resolve
>
> my flashlight on Pluto.
>
>
>
>
>
> Of course the stars, galaxies and Supernova are not laser lights. And
>
> this
>
> concept of "coherence" is important in the distance that a telescope
>
> can
>
> resolve a shining light.
>
>
>
>
>
> So, Enrico, I am not surprized at all, that the Physics community in
>
> conjunction
>
> with the Astronomy community never sat down and worked out, first,
>
> what the limit
>
> of their best telescopes are. Whether any of them can see beyond 200
>
> million light
>
> years of a star or galaxy, or 400 million light years of a Supernova.
>
> For
>
> there is a definite
>
> upper limit of distance.
>
>
>
>
>
> It does not surprize me that the Physics and Astronomy community have
>
> assumed
>
> their telescopes can see and peer to a infinite distance in Space.
>
> And
>
> the Big Bang
>
> theory accepts such a ridiculous assumption.
>
>
>
>
>
> Now it maybe that radio telescopes can see further, but here again,
>
> there is an upper
>
> limit. And I am guessing that it is the RING seen in Jarrett's
>
> mapping
>
> that tells me this
>
> ring is the "edge of the observable horizon of the Cosmos". And that
>
> RING is about
>
> 400 million light years away. And thus, everything beyond that RING,
>
> is actually inside
>
> the ring or closer to earth.
>
>
>
>
>
> Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
>
>
>
> (snipped)
>
>
>
>
>

> > Yes, resolution comes back to memory. There is another idea or concept
>
> > in Physics when I took Optics in school. I sort of forgotten the
>
> > concept
>
> > or it is vague to me now. It went along the lines of something
>
> called
>

> > "coherence of light". Meaning that the flashlight on Pluto directed
>
> to
>

> > the
>
> > Hubble Space Telescope may not be resolved by the telescope, but if
>
> I
>

> > had
>
> > a laser light flashlight, that Hubble telescope would then be able
>
> to
>

> > resolve
>
> > my flashlight on Pluto.
>
>
>
>
>

> > Of course the stars, galaxies and Supernova are not laser lights. And
>
> > this
>
> > concept of "coherence" is important in the distance that a
>
> telescope
>

> > can
>
> > resolve a shining light.
>
>
>
> It has been a very long time since I sat in a UC Optics classroom in
>
> 1970. And
>
> never knowing that such an experience was going to come out so
>
> fruitfull eventually.
>
>
>
>
>
> So the question I raise is what is the maximum distance that the
>
> Hubble Space
>
> Telescope can see a ordinary galaxy. Maximum distance given the
>
> physics of
>
> how light travels and optics of the telescope. And it is a darn
>
> shame
>
> that
>
> noone in the astronomy community ever thought to ask such a
>
> question.
>
> The biologists certainly asked the questions a long time ago about
>
> the
>
> smallest length their light-microscopes could attain. And that if a
>
> biologist
>
> proclaimed to see a virus in a light-microscope would have been
>
> laughed
>
> out of his profession.
>
>
>
>
>
> But nowadays, it is commonplace for astronomers and physicists to
>
> claim that
>
> quasars and the Sloan Great Wall are far beyond 400 million light
>
> years, yet the
>
> Hubble Space Telescope sees them as red spots, yet none of these
>
> scientists ever
>
> worked out whether Hubble Space Telescope can see a quasar or Great
>
> Wall
>
> in the billions of light years.
>
>
>
>
>
> The limit of a light microscope is that of bacteria, so where is the
>
> limit of the
>
> Hubble Space Telescope. Most astronomers probably have the notion
>
> that
>
> telescopes have no limit to observing distances. That they think the
>
> Hubble
>
> can see and peer into infinity distance.
>
>
>
>
>
> To me, such notions and assumptions are repulsive.
>
>
>
>
>
> So now, how to find out the limit of distance of the Hubble Space
>
> Telescope?
>
> How do we find out its limit?
>
>
>
>
>
> Well a good way is to ask a question such as whether a flashlight
>
> placed on
>
> Pluto or Mars or Moon can be seen by the Hubble Space Telescope?
>
> Have
>
> a gradation of flashlights on the Moon and see where the Hubble
>
> ceases
>
> to
>
> "see" the flashlight. Then we can extrapolate that luminosity of the
>
> flashlight
>
> and Moon distance to that of Supernova or regular galaxies as to
>
> what
>
> the
>
> Hubble Telescope upper limit of distance is.
>
>
>
>
>
> Now I believe the prime reason there is a upper limit is the
>
> behaviour
>
> of light itself,
>
> in that it has a luminosity governed by inverse square of distance.
>
> If
>
> my memory
>
> serves me from 40 years ago in school studying Optics, this is
>
> called
>
> candela.
>
>
>
>
>
> And the reason that laser light can be seen so much further of a
>
> distance is because
>
> of the "coherent beam" that does not fall off at inverse square of
>
> distance.
>
>
>
>
>
> No galaxy , nor any supernova nor the quasars are laser lights, and
>
> so
>
> they fall off
>
> in luminosity by inverse square of distance.
>
>
>
>
>
> So the question of using a telescope to tell us of the distance to a
>
> galaxy or a star or
>
> a quasar or a Sloan Great Wall, is that we can use standard Physics
>
> ideas, laws and
>
> principles of Optics to tell us how far a telescope can resolve a
>
> regular normal astro
>
> body. My guess is that the Hubble Space Telescope has a maximum
>
> distance range
>
> of 200 million light years for a normal regular single galaxy and
>
> any
>
> such galaxies beyond
>
> 200 million light years is not detectable by Hubble. For a
>
> Supernova,
>
> I am guessing
>
> 400 million light years distance the Hubble can still faintly see
>
> the
>
> Supernova, but
>
> beyond that distance is undetected.
>
>
>
>
>
> Now why is this so very important? Well, obviously, since the quasars
>
> and Great Walls
>
> are alleged to be 13 billion and 4 billion light years away, yet
>
> easily seen in the Hubble
>
> Space Telescope as red spots, signifies that the redshift is all in
>
> error. If Hubble
>
> Telescope distance is only good to 200 to 400 million light years,
>
> then the quasars
>
> and Great Walls must be a smaller distance than 200 to 400 million
>
> light years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Funny, how it seems that a logical thinker in astronomer is as rare
>
> to
>
> find as a
>
> Supernova explosion is rare to find. Because, it really does not
>
> need
>
> a rocketscientist
>
> to figure out that the telescope itself is a distance measuring tool
>
> and the most
>
> accurate measuring tool of distance in all of astronomy. So shame on
>
> the astronomy
>
> community for never realizing this valuable tool. Part of the
>
> problem
>
> is that so
>
> many scientists spend most of their time on thinking about equations
>
> of math
>
> and physics, and little time on clear logic. And so you have a 100
>
> years of time
>
> wasted on Doppler redshift and no time spent on the telescope itself
>
> as a distance
>
> tool.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Approximately 90 percent of AP's posts are missing in the Google
>
> newsgroups author search starting May 2012. They call it indexing; I
>
> call it censor discrimination. Whatever the case, what is needed now
>
> is for science newsgroups like sci.physics, sci.chem, sci.bio,
>
> sci.geo.geology, sci.med, sci.paleontology, sci.astro,
>
> sci.physics.electromag to?be hosted by a University the same as what
>
> Drexel?University hosts sci.math as the Math Forum. Science needs to
>
> be in education?not in the hands of corporations chasing after the
>
> next dollar bill.?Besides, Drexel's Math Forum can demand no fake
>
> names, and only 5 posts per day of all posters which reduces or
>
> eliminates most spam and hate-spew, search-engine-bombing, and front-
>
> page-hogging. Drexel has?done a excellent, simple and fair author-
>
> archiving of AP sci.math posts since May 2012?as seen?here:
>
>
>
> http://mathforum.org/kb/profile.jspa?userID=499986
>
>
>
> Archimedes Plutonium
>
> http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
>
> whole entire Universe is just one big atom
>
> where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies





Date Subject Author
5/14/13
Read Chapt17 Telescope experiments as distance tool #1574 ATOM TOTALITY
5th ed
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Telescope experiments, and I am a tool TOTALLY 5th ed
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Telescope experiments, and I am a tool TOTALLY 5th ed
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Telescope experiments, and I am a tool TOTALLY 5th ed
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Telescope experiments, and I am a tool TOTALLY 5th ed
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Enrico! . Call someone. PRONTO! My Behind is too Big and
I Can't get out of the Tub. Get a Crew to Pull me Out , Enrico.
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Enrico! . Call someone. PRONTO! My Behind is too Big and
I Can't get out of the Tub. Get a Crew to Pull me Out , Enrico.
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Enrico! . Call someone. PRONTO! My Behind is too Big and
I Can't get out of the Tub. Get a Crew to Pull me Out , Enrico.
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Enrico! . Call someone. PRONTO! My Behind is too Big and
I Can't get out of the Tub. Get a Crew to Pull me Out , Enrico.
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Enrico! . Call someone. PRONTO! My Behind is too Big and
I Can't get out of the Tub. Get a Crew to Pull me Out , Enrico.
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Telescope experiments as distance tool #1574 ATOM
TOTALITY 5th ed
bradguth@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Telescope experiments as distance tool #1574 ATOM
TOTALITY 5th ed
gk@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read no High Schoolers in sci newsgroups and Niuz.biz malware wrecking computers
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
5/14/13
Read Re: no High Schoolers in sci newsgroups and Niuz.biz malware wrecking computers
gk@gmail.com
5/17/13
Read Re: no High Schoolers in sci newsgroups and Niuz.biz malware wrecking computers
bradguth@gmail.com
5/17/13
Read Re: no High Schoolers in sci newsgroups and Niuz.biz malware wrecking computers
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
5/17/13
Read Re: no High Schoolers in sci newsgroups and Niuz.biz malware wrecking computers
gk@gmail.com
5/18/13
Read Re: no High Schoolers in sci newsgroups and Niuz.biz malware wrecking computers
bradguth@gmail.com
5/24/13
Read 1604 Kepler's supernova Chapt17 Telescope experiments as distance
tool #1588 ATOM TOTALITY 5th ed
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
5/17/13
Read Re: Chapt17 Telescope experiments as distance tool #1574 ATOM TOTALITY 5th ed
Phony MacNymster

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