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Topic: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Replies: 81   Last Post: Jun 4, 2013 5:59 AM

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mathgroup

Posts: 20
Registered: 10/19/11
Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Posted: May 23, 2013 3:56 AM
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David...

But that was exactly my point...I tried so hard with our Community College
and University to get Mathematica into the curriculum....or, as I said, to
give some lectures and examples on the use of Mathematica....and ALL of
them, Engineering, Math and Physics Depts said 'Thanks but No Thanks', as
if they have something against Mathematica....It seemed that the idea that
students would not use pencil and paper in as laborious a manner as possible
really bothered them....Not once did they think perhaps this might lead to a
real enjoyment of technical subjects and perhaps to much better
understanding of their course work......even when I was working I was
affectionately known as 'The Mathematica Nut'...although, I'm reminded of
something that Nietzsche said....

"Overzealousness on the part of one person can lead the others to
Apostasy".....

jerry blimbaum

-----Original Message-----
From: djmpark
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 9:28 AM
To: 'mathgroup ' ; mathgroup@smc.vnet.net
Subject: Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!

It will be done by example. Several people will work together, exchanging
Mathematica notebooks or working on a common notebook. The notebooks will be
what I call "literate"; they will look something like a technical paper or
report, but they will take advantage of all the active and dynamic features
of Mathematica, and contain generated knowledge in the form of active and
immediately accessible routines and definitions developed in the course of
the effort.

The notebooks will be of higher integrity than paper and pencil work, or
using Mathematica as a programmed calculator and copying out because of all
the self-proofing and additional checks that can be performed. (Of course,
one can still make errors but they should be rarer and not the common
variety.)

That all this can be done in a single application is a tremendous advantage.

Someday other people will see what they are doing and the advantages are so
great they will want to do the same thing. The task is getting more people
to write and use good examples.


David Park
djmpark@comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~djmpark/index.html




From: mathgroup [mailto:fizzymath@knology.net]

I want to comment on my experience , limited of course, with students of
Engineering, Engineers and Professors of Engineering.....my background is
Physics...

First, I get the impression that , in the main, Symbolic Computation, etc.
is not something they are really interested in......After I retired, I took
several courses in Electromagnetics, one Graduate and the other
Undergraduate......No one suggested the use of or taught the potential
applications of Mathematica....Even in the Graduate course, I was the only
student using Symbolic software ......in fact, the students did everything
by hand and whenever something required software, such as Antenna patterns,
out came M-------b with some code , etc....and that was the end of it....So,
the students knew no better....and the Professors didn’t care or werent
interested themselves in the benefits of learning and solving problems
Symbolically....I asked one Professor if I could give a class lecture on the
use of Mathematica for Electromagnetics...He agreed but than said 'I can
only give you about ten minutes'....I respectfully declined the offer....

So, how does WRI expand its market?....IMO, there have to be dedicated
Teachers on how to use Mathematica in what I'll call the Research Mode not
just define given functions from the text and plot it.......from what I have
seen of the attitude of Instructors and Professors I'm anything but
Optimistic....I went to our local Colleges and suggested a sequence of
courses in Mathematica ending with Animation and Simulation....That got me
nowhere especially with the Math Depts...so, in part, I see people who are
stuck in pencil and paper and refuse to get out of it....

Again, of course, this is my limited experience...Perhaps others have had
different and better ones...

Jerry Blimbaum



-----Original Message-----
From: paulmchale7@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!

I have (maybe) a minority perspective on Mathematica being an engineer. I
used it long ago at university at version 1. The next time I would use it
would be a wolfram approved ebay purchase of version 4. I have used it ever
since, but am still rookie in some ways.

I believe WRI is attempting to broaden the user base rather than deepen the
product. They are doing this by adding (from our perspective) non-value add
features to lure people in. The argument is the learning curve is less
which should lead to greater sales. This is not how it works at any place I
have been.

The only engineering sales force that matters is engineers. If they can't
argue for the product, it will not happen. Engineers can't argue for
something they are unable use until after purchase and additional training.
If you want engineers to demonstrate something or argue for it, you have to
do more than offer wizards and connections to WolframAlpha which only apply
after the sale. Engineers need to show understanding and capability.
Managers have to show accounting they are saving money by buying
Mathematica. Improvements in quality of OUR products or ability to address
greater problems is not quantifiable to the brigade of MBAs who run modern
businesses. There has to be quantifiable savings. This has to be
demonstrated by engineering staff before purchase and framed in terms of
reduced need for time (salary expense).

I think this can only be achieved by making the online education material
targeted to a specific audience. This material must solve real problems in
a way that conveys the underlying capability.

I have been told by WRI that most users will only use 5% (at most) of
Mathematicas total ability. LoL, if only everyone would use the same 5%.

If you want us to be able to sell it, you have to provide training for free
so we can get started solving engineering problems prior to purchase.
Combine this with a 60 day trial and you could save a lot of WRI development
dollars on bells and whistles that won't increase sales. Help us help you!
Stop trying to treat sales tools as a profit center!




Date Subject Author
5/12/13
Read Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Park
5/13/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
psycho_dad
5/13/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
psycho_dad
5/14/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Nasser Abbasi
5/15/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
szhorvat@gmail.com
5/16/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
szhorvat@gmail.com
5/16/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Dr. Peter Klamser
5/17/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Andrzej Kozlowski
5/17/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Murray Eisenberg
5/17/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Dr. Peter Klamser
5/18/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Dr. Peter Klamser
5/19/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Murray Eisenberg
5/19/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
paulmchale7@gmail.com
5/19/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
paulmchale7@gmail.com
5/23/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
szhorvat@gmail.com
5/24/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Park
5/20/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Ingolf Dahl
5/20/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Annetts
5/22/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
mathgroup
5/23/13
Read expanding the use of symbolic computation in engineering .. was Re:
Richard Fateman
5/24/13
Read Re: expanding the use of symbolic computation in engineering .. was Re:
W. Craig Carter
5/23/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Park
5/23/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
mathgroup
5/24/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Richard Fateman
5/25/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Park
5/25/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Richard Fateman
5/25/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Park
5/28/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Alexei Boulbitch
5/28/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Alexei Boulbitch
6/4/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
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5/24/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Park
5/27/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Noqsi
5/28/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Richard Fateman
5/31/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Bailey
6/1/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Richard Fateman
6/2/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Bailey
6/3/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Richard Fateman
6/3/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Bailey
6/4/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Andrzej Kozlowski
5/29/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
fd
5/30/13
Read Applying Mathematica to practical problems
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5/31/13
Read Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
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5/31/13
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5/31/13
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6/1/13
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6/1/13
Read Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
Richard Fateman
6/2/13
Read Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
Andrzej Kozlowski
6/3/13
Read Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
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6/3/13
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Andrzej Kozlowski
6/1/13
Read Mathematica numerics and... Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
Daniel Lichtblau
6/2/13
Read Interval vs default, was Re: Mathematica numerics and... Re: Applying
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6/2/13
Read Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
James Stein
6/3/13
Read Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
waku
6/3/13
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Daniel Lichtblau
5/27/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
Noqsi
6/2/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Bailey
5/28/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
fd
5/31/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
David Bailey
5/28/13
Read Re: Work on Basic Mathematica Stephen!
fd
6/2/13
Read Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
Mark McClure
6/3/13
Read Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
Richard Fateman
6/3/13
Read Re: Applying Mathematica to practical problems
Joseph Gwinn
6/3/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic
lshifr@gmail.com
6/3/13
Read Re: Warsaw Univ. course, was Re: Work on Basic
lshifr@gmail.com

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