On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Robert Hansen <email@example.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 10, 2013, at 7:07 PM, kirby urner <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > > You mean high school students were already doing construction? Or do you > mean they were already tracked into construction such that their choice to > pursue so-called "blue collar" jobs was already made (perhaps for them). > > > No, I mean that they were attracted to construction as a profession, in > high school, like I was attracted to engineering. You have something > against construction? >
No, I just attended mostly international high schools where "construction" would not have been a focus for most kids. Not because we weren't surrounded by Roman ruins, but because construction jobs are not usually the kind that take you overseas, unless contracting for the military, and in Rome we didn't have that many military families. Same in Manila, because most of the American engineers and construction workers would be tied to Clark AFB or Subic NB and they had their own schools. My best friend's dad was a road engineer in the private sector but rather unusual in that regard. It's from him that we borrowed the HP-65 and learned rudimentary programming. I was ready for that IBM 360/370 when I got to that blinking terminal prompt.
> > On the contrary, today's machines tend to run self-diagnostics and include > many "chips". > > > Nope. I was just down at the shop last week. They were full of grease. I > love grease. The saddest part of running out of fossil fuels is a world > without oil and grease. I really don't see me staying up till the wee > hours of the morning rebuilding an electric motor. >
My mechanic of choice is Barry Redd, retired banker. Turns out a "dimmer switch" in a cabin cruiser is something you would of course like, but it's hard to come by. Something about DC I guess. Barry programmed a chip, in assembler, that does the dimming. Mixed with that oil and grease are lots of such delicate electronics, at least in the maritime world. Your shop might have been more focused on lawn mowers, given the Florida ecosystem. Barry is oft covered in grease and oil, helps people take boat motors apart and reassemble. Here's a picture of Barry doing something mechanical:
Barry gave a lecture on his dimmer switch device one evening, shared the source code. Not bad for a banker, I was thinking.
> > Either you think students should have options or you don't. You can't have > it both ways. You can't say "Yes, they should be able to choose a > curriculum they are interested in as long as it involves algebra and > calculus." > > I think they should have options, which is why I shared three camera shots for the "badge options" that Boy Scouts have. Did you know about Mozilla and badging? We were talking about that at work around the virtual water cooler recently. Scott, our boss, thinks badges are too wimpy for what we're doing. But he wasn't denigrating scouting, just facing the reality that most people aren't Eagle Scouts.
> Biz math ended up along with typewriters on the ash heap of history. > > > Nope. Biz math equals spreadsheets plus the basic principles of accounting > and finance. It is a huge requirement of practically all professions from > vocational to technical. It is the "rithmetic" in the three R's. Yet, it > got displaced by algebra and calculus, which are used by only a handful of > quants. >
You make that mistake often: confusing a concept in your head with a changing reality. "Biz math" is whatever "biz" needs in the way of "math" from its cubicle people and if you've been in a cubicle lately you know that not just Excel is important but Microsoft Access. You can't do reliable bookkeeping on a spreadsheet because they're notoriously unprotected. If somewhat makes a mistake and wants to "back it out", they have to record a transaction in database world, and that's the world you want when doing bookkeeping, with people's (users') fingerprints all over the data, everyone on record as to what they did to what column when. Spreadsheets have none of these features and any business of more than a tiny number of employes is using a database, not a spreadsheet, for its accounting.
I stand by my original thesis: once cubicle world started to require SQL, in the form of Microsoft Office, Access a part of it, the biz math teachers mostly just walked, became too expensive, or the textbooks just dropped off the map as too ridiculously old fart to matter. The books had no SQL. The teachers had no SQL experience.
In today's world, might as well go get a shopping cart, as far as being taken seriously in business. True, there's a close-to-retirement management layer that got there through good old boy connections and doesn't know any "biz math" (i.e. SQL) but that's a vanishing species.
If you want to be taken seriously in any automated record keeping environment, you at least know what SQL *is*, whether you know how to write a SELECT statement another matter (an 8th grade topic, dropping to 6th in near future -- in schools that have any competent faculty I mean). No one out of high school should have not at least had the option of learning this basic skill to some level.
> Your doctrine is no different than these others' Kirby. You want the > students to study what you want them to study, not what they want to study. > > Bob Hansen > > My doctrine, as spelled out over the years in this archive, is that the model for USA public schools at least is you're educating "virtual presidents". It makes no difference if they're inclined towards construction. We have presidents in every walk of life and of every religion and gender. It's not about what you actually *do* in the sense of "career". The Oval Office is that shape for a reason: it represents Everyman's "head" (skull). We're each a virtual president in our democracy. That's the "doctrine" I've been spelling out, have web pages about, would say that anyone familiar with my views *at all* knows about me or is learning.