Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math.independent

Topic: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Replies: 98   Last Post: Jun 30, 2013 3:22 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
fom

Posts: 1,969
Registered: 12/4/12
Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Posted: Jun 19, 2013 6:05 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On 6/19/2013 4:11 AM, david petry wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:26:58 PM UTC-7, fom wrote:
>

>> Joel David Hamkins answer to the question in
>> this link seems relevant to some of the discussions
>> that have been in various threads recently

>
>> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/44102/is-the-analysis-as-taught-in-universities-in-fact-the-analysis-of-definable-numbe/44129#44129
>
> That link includes the following quote:
>
> "...the concept of definability is a second-order concept, that only makes sense from an outside-the-universe perspective"
>
> I think Mueckenheim would tell us that the phrase "an outside-the-universe perspective" would only make sense to a math-theologian.
>
> Is he not right?
>


WM will be right in his own mind. With regard to your
question, WM rejects the first-order formal axiomatics of
number theory despite its similarities with many of his
statements. He also insists on the basic fundamental
nature of classical induction. But this is a second-order
expression of induction. It is doubtful that he can
make the needed formal distinctions.

You are correct that the link would not be convincing
to WM. But, there are others who participate in his
threads who would find Hamkins' remarks of interest, and,
there are others, such as Herc, who post similar objections
to infinitary set theory on the same basis that might find
this perspective informative.

I did not bring attention to Hamkins' remarks as an
appeal to authority. That only works when the authorities
are respected and treated with deference. That is not
the case here.









Date Subject Author
6/18/13
Read Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
fom
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David Petry
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
fom
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Peter Percival
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
fom
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Ralf Bader
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/30/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.