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Topic: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Replies: 67   Last Post: Jun 28, 2013 11:06 PM

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kirby urner

Posts: 1,788
Registered: 11/29/05
Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Posted: Jun 19, 2013 12:39 AM
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On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 7:57 PM, GS Chandy <gs_chandy@yahoo.com> wrote:

<< SNIP >>


> > ... as Canadians tend to be twice as smart as their brethren to the south
> >

>


> No. I'm Indian, not Canadian. We do have very grave issues with ALL of
> our education systems (including math education) - none of which we are
> even beginning to resolve!
>
>


Yes, I know GS that you are not Canadian.

Because this is a public archive to which I link to from street corners,
bus stops, places where high schoolers loiter, I also address those
eyeballs, suggesting they look at both television and text books with a
critical eye.

It's not just the one or the other that'll lie to you or try to shape your
opinion.

I have this review of an economics textbook that's something of a scream...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bit.listserv.geodesic/ogZC4H57aSc/WTLGEUWm3rIJ
(hard to find)

Anyway, beware the rip tide of lies. [1]


> (Though it is not actually relevant, I believe you're mistaken in your
> contention that "Canadians tend to be twice as smart as their brethren to
> the south". I would believe that your impression to this effect actually
> must derive from some appropriate modification of what I've identified as
> 'the underlying issue in India' - see below: people in charge in the US are
> probably quite as blind to the crucial issue that is to use effectively
> whatever resources are in fact available: none of those resources - whether
> of finance; people; our means of 'handling issues' - are being effectively
> applied to the issues at hand. In most cases, we possess litle if any real
> understanding of the issues that are actually important/ relevant at any
> time).
>
>


I remember when our family was living in Bhutan how Canadian kids were
welcome through WUSC, their version of the Global University (GU). US kids
were not accepted through Peace Corps though, given no real diplomatic ties
between WDC and Thimphu.

As an Indian, you are familiar with this Himalayan nation to your upper
right, probably on a distorted Mercator -- Google Earth much better and
more informative. I wonder to what level of penetration you think Google
Earth has achieved in polytechnical schools of engineering and urban /
regional planning in India.

Anyway, USers were fighting this thing called the "Cold War" that led them
to take terrifying actions in places like "Indochina" (which most USers may
not be able to find on an unlabeled projection). The Himalayans took a dim
view of this form of idiocracy and opted to not invite "superpowers" to put
their pushy embassies in their region. India has stayed closely allied with
Bhutan as another member of SAARC and the non-aligned nations (recently
meeting in Tehran as I recall).[2]



>
> > -- I read in a study somewhere (Moore?).
> >

>


> I'm not acquainted with "Moore's study".
>
>


A sociological study comparing Detroit with a nearby Canadian metropolitan
area, comparing concepts of urban safety and level of trust, attitudes
towards firearms etc. Might have been a documentary film, or part of one?


>
> See above. (I agree that Euclid's Method [extended or otherwise] does
> need to be effectively taught - which is not the case in our existing
> systems. But [I believe] it's not Euclid's Method that will provide an
> answer to the dilemma I confront).
>


I find I have a lot of leverage with parents when I map out the conceptual
network in question. Remember my kernel STEM syllabus from a previous
post? No matter, here it is again:

(a) Divided Spheres (STEM primer, geometric, Popko)
(b) Digital Mathematics (STEM textbook, Litvin & Litvin)
(c) King of Infinite Space (a bio, Siobhan)

Asset (b) aims for comprehension of RSA, the algebraic algorithm, by the
end of the course.

Understanding of the role of cryptography in human history is of course a
focus topic we keep coming back to.

Asset (b) reconnects us to some of that more Gaussian / German number
theory that Euclidean Geometry tended to displace in the US, as North
Americans recoiled from just about anything German, given two World Wars
spent demonizing segments of that populace.[3]

Spherical trig also used to get more airplay, before it became All About
Calculus and Calculus Mountain (driving kids in great herds over that
treacherous terrain, losing most of them off cliffs or down chasms). I'm
for letting Physics have calculus in K-12, except in STEM we don't care to
make those old distinctions so much. That was for the 1900s, where people
could still afford to be that slow (inefficient with their concepts).


> Thanks for the references in your endnotes, which will obviously take me
> some time to absorb adequately. (I have glanced at some of them - they do
> not seem to address what I believe I have correctly identified above as the
> 'underlying issue[s]').
>
> GSC
>


I think the underlying issues have a lot to do with curriculum content.
Others on this list think we have the content more or less nailed down, and
it's really just a matter of "how" and "when", but not "what".

I think "what" really matters, and that minus Euclid's Algorithm you don't
have RSA which means you don't really understand HTTPS in your web
browser. And if that's the case, why oh why are they letting you pretend
you're a STEM teacher?

Not you personally, GSC, I'm talking to eye-ballers who might consider
themselves "math teachers" at some level, and yet in the practical "how the
world works" sense are content with these gaping holes in their
curriculum.

They never talk about Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) nor how to make electronic
voting secure.

Those are the loser basket case high schools that turn our would-be great
people into incapacitated adults.

Those who think about "national security" or "staying vigilant" are
understandably alarmed. Did anyone envision, in the 1970s, that the
schools would get so bad (irrelevant) by 2013? Did we ever think Planet of
the Apes would be so real?

Kirby



ENDNOTES

[1] http://youtu.be/TpYIKF1wuyE (about misinformation in the media)

[2] http://www.saarc-sec.org/
http://beta.dawn.com/news/745695/summit-of-non-aligned-countries-opens-in-tehran
(NAM)

[3] Dr. Seuss is especially effective
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2012/08/10/dr-seusss-wartime-propaganda-cartoons/
(popular writer of children's books, right up there with Charles Schulz in
terms of popularity).


Date Subject Author
6/17/13
Read Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Joe Niederberger
6/17/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/17/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/17/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Clyde Greeno @ MALEI
6/17/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/17/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Domenico Rosa
6/18/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/18/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/18/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/18/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/18/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times > K-calculus
Clyde Greeno
6/18/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Joe Niederberger
6/19/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/19/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/18/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/19/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/19/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/19/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/19/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Dave L. Renfro
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Richard Strausz
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
W. Stephen Wilson
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/22/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
W. Stephen Wilson
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Joe Niederberger
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Joe Niederberger
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Joe Niederberger
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Joe Niederberger
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/20/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Joe Niederberger
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Joe Niederberger
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Robert Hansen
6/22/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Joe Niederberger
6/22/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/23/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
kirby urner
6/21/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/24/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/24/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/24/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/24/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/25/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/26/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
Wayne Bishop
6/26/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy
6/28/13
Read Re: Math Wars Philosophizing in the NY Times
GS Chandy

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