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Topic: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Replies: 98   Last Post: Jun 30, 2013 3:22 PM

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David C. Ullrich

Posts: 3,138
Registered: 12/13/04
Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Posted: Jun 21, 2013 10:30 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:12:36 +0100, Peter Percival
<peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

>mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de wrote:
>

>>
>> Look: Zermelo has "proved" that the real numbers can be well-ordered. But it has been proved that the real numbers in fact cannot be well-ordered. That is as certain as that you cannot get a 13 with two dice.

>
>I think you're confusing two different results. There are models of ZFC
>in which a well-ordering is a not definable. That does not mean that R
>cannot be well ordered, it just means that if phi(x,y) is the ordering
>relation, phi is not a formula of ZFC.


You haven't been paying attention. The sort of subtlety you attribute
to WM here is beyond him. When he says it's been proved that the
reals cannot be well-ordered he means that it's been "proved" by
_him_. By a vague argument that takes various fuzzinesses as
premises - premises which he justifies by nothing but bald
assertion.

DU.






Date Subject Author
6/18/13
Read Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
fom
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David Petry
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
fom
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Peter Percival
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
fom
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Ralf Bader
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/30/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil

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