Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math.independent

Topic: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Replies: 98   Last Post: Jun 30, 2013 3:22 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Virgil

Posts: 7,011
Registered: 1/6/11
Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Posted: Jun 21, 2013 3:53 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

In article <e652fbab-3387-46ce-a0ee-c537db927196@googlegroups.com>,
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de wrote:

> On Wednesday, 19 June 2013 14:12:36 UTC+2, Peter Percival wrote:
> > mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de wrote: > > Look: Zermelo has "proved" that the
> > real numbers can be well-ordered. But it has been proved that the real
> > numbers in fact cannot be well-ordered. That is as certain as that you
> > cannot get a 13 with two dice. I think you're confusing two different
> > results.

>
>
> But your thinking is mistaken. It is obvious that the reals have not yet been
> well-ordered. If there had been a positive result, everybody would know it.
>


> The axiom of choice leads to the well-ordering theorem. Zermelo proved "every
> set can be well-ordered", which is literally a lie.



It is a lie to claim that Zermelo proved "every set can be well-ordered".
What he may have proved is that given the axioms of ZFC, THEN "every
set can be well-ordered", which is quite different.

> We know that it is
> impossible to well-order any uncountable set because there are only countably
> many marks which can be attached to the elements.


What WM claims to "know" is neither evidence nor necessarily true
anywhere outside Wolkenmuekenheim, since the world WM claims to live in
is not at all the same world that the rest of us live in.
--




Date Subject Author
6/18/13
Read Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
fom
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David Petry
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
fom
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Peter Percival
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
fom
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Ralf Bader
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/30/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.