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Topic: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Replies: 98   Last Post: Jun 30, 2013 3:22 PM

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Virgil

Posts: 8,833
Registered: 1/6/11
Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Posted: Jun 22, 2013 1:24 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

In article <074182a0-f2d5-4a58-899b-38b7951de168@googlegroups.com>,
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de wrote:

> On Friday, 21 June 2013 21:53:31 UTC+2, Virgil wrote:
>

> > > The axiom of choice leads to the well-ordering theorem. Zermelo proved
> > > "every set can be well-ordered", which is literally a lie.

>
>

> > It is a lie to claim that Zermelo proved "every set can be well-ordered".
>
>
> Beweis, daß jede Menge wohlgeordnet werden kann. (1904)
>
>

> > What he may have proved is that given the axioms of ZFC, THEN "every set
> > can be well-ordered", which is quite different.

>
> No. At those times people did not use nonsense-axiom and derive other
> nonsense from them - like matheologians today do without being ashamed. At
> those times axioms had to be meaningful. Compare the discussion about the
> "validity" or "truth" of the axiom of choice.


Without having assumed some one of the many forms of the axiom of
choice, neither Zermelo, nor anyone else has ever claimed to have proven
that every set can be well -ordered.
>
> > > We know that it is > impossible to well-order any uncountable set because
> > > there are only countably many marks which can be attached to the
> > > elements.


Mark Twain said it: "It ain't what you don't know that hurts you most,
its what you know for sure that jest ain't so." Mark Twain

>
> > What WM claims to "know" is neither evidence nor necessarily true anywhere
>
> It is obviously ture everywhere.


If it were so obvious, why is WM the only one claiming it here?

Mark Twain said it: "It ain't what you don't know that hurts you most,
its what you know for sure that jest ain't so."
--




Date Subject Author
6/18/13
Read Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
fom
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David Petry
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
fom
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Peter Percival
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/21/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
fom
6/26/13
Read Re: WM screws up the notion of a limit!
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/22/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/23/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/24/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/25/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Ralf Bader
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
David C. Ullrich
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/26/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/27/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Tucsondrew@me.com
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/30/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/29/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/28/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil
6/19/13
Read Re: Joel David Hamkins on definable real numbers in analysis
Virgil

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