Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math.independent

Topic: Matheology § 300
Replies: 17   Last Post: Jul 9, 2013 8:54 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Virgil

Posts: 9,012
Registered: 1/6/11
Re: Matheology � 300
Posted: Jul 9, 2013 3:40 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

In article <46d9cb76-303c-48a3-a72a-11c25fb9b621@googlegroups.com>,
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de wrote:

> On Tuesday, 9 July 2013 01:27:09 UTC+2, fom wrote:
>

> >> Unless there is some error in that description of the problem, I feel safe
> >> in concluding that at noon, no numbers remain in the vase.

>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balls_and_vase_problem There are several
> > interpretations.

>
> Why consider such a comparatively involved case (although it is by far more
> overwhelming than my case). But my case is so easy to understand that even a
> completely perverted matheologian can grasp at least the first dip.
>
> Insert one by one every natural number into the urn (in always half time like
> the room maid of Hilberts hotel cleans all rooms between 11 o'clock and
> noon). And take in the same way every natural number out of the urn, but
> NEVER take a number out, before the next one has been inserted. Then by
> simplest logic you will never have taken out all natural numbers.


That falsely presumes that there must be a last step, either a last
insertion or a last removal. But it is also the case that every
insertion of a ball is followed by that ball's removal, so that WM is
left without being able to identify any ball as having been left in the
vase.
>
> All natural numbers can be taken out. That is
> impossible, because even without my ban every natural number taken out has a
> larger brother remaining in the urn.


Again WM overlooks that every ball inserted before noon is removed
before noon.

The key is to note that such an infinite process cannot be analysed by
looking for a last step in the process, but only by looking for an
outside step which can only follow after all infinitely many steps
within the process are completed.
--





Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.