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Topic: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Replies: 73   Last Post: Jul 26, 2013 6:27 PM

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kirby urner

Posts: 1,913
Registered: 11/29/05
Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Posted: Jul 25, 2013 10:58 AM
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On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:45 PM, frank zubek <fzubek@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm just amazed, how you go around and promoting synergetics, and
> following the debates, well it is all the same, no one really believes in
> Fuller's so called geometry of thinking, when actually it is all wrong,
> incorrect, have the physical models, have the numbers, and I can model all
> what Fuller claims to invented, it is all wrong, and most folks on this
> list have doubth that synergetics even makes a moderate sense. If there is
> anyone from these teachers, well I would love to talk, love to demonstrate,
> and love to confirm with numbers, models, spheres, or whatever method
> required. I'm not following you I'm following the debate, and this group is
> about debate and NOT ABOUT YOU, or Fuller.
>
> frank
>


You're welcome to be as coherent as you are capable of being Mr. Zubek.
Insofar as there's a debate to be had, I think you've seen I'm not shy
about presenting my side in its particulars.

I haven't myself been able to grok all of Fuller's stuff though I'm
appreciative of its intent: to pioneer a multidisciplinary language that
parses as prose so the humanities-trained can read it -- but haven't
bothered in most cases -- whereas those happy with symbolic notations will
have new ways of bridging the gap (the C.P. Show gap, twixt STEM and
not-STEM).

One of Fuller's pet topics is the dissection of polyhedrons into a small
number (the smaller the better) of tetrahedral components. He has two,
called the A & B, same volume, that between them assemble a tetrahedron,
octahedron, rhombic dodecahedron, cuboctahedron and cube, with volumes 1,
4, 6, 20, 3 respectively. They also assemble intermediate shapes,
including tetrahedral and other space-fillers (not left or right handed,
whereas the As and Bs themselves *are* left and right handed).

That particular content I'm very clear about and have no doubts about. I
also consider the topic highly STEM-worthy because Fuller was right about
the CPP / FCC / isomatrix (Bell's "kites") being uber-important, both in
architecture (where it's called the "octet truss" by some -- a space
frame), and in chemistry. These are not Fuller's inventions (except for
the patent on the octet truss, now expired). The advantage of the whole
number volumes (above) is that it opens doors into this thinking, including
among those who mostly only read prose, and among children.

Frank here is also interested in dissecting polyhedrons, the cube in
particular, and came up with a different set of modules (more numerous,
less parsimonious) than Fuller's A & B, all of which may be assembled by
Fuller's A & B. Zubek's anxiety over the fact that his "puzzle" (he was
hoping to commercially market the thing as a toy) could be reduced to A and
B modules has led him to take the offensive, hoping to expose Fuller's
dissections as somehow fraudulent. Insisting on a relative scale between
his cube and Fuller's is his way of trying to frustrate the dissection of
his own modules to Fuller's. I get to be the object of his anxiety, as one
of the lead expositors of the Bucky Fuller approach.

The cuboctahedron of volume 20 is likewise a shape you can get by packing
12 unit-radius spheres around a nuclear unit sphere and connecting adjacent
centers. Fuller's next move was to spin this creature around its
face-center, vertex and mid-edges to generate 7 + 6 + 12 = 25 great
circles. He gives the icosahedron (volume ~18.51) the same treatment
(spinning to get 31 great circles) and superimposes the two great circle
networks. It's this kind of thinking that fed into the geodesic sphere and
dome studies that made him famous and led to other patents.

Edward Popko's 'Divided Spheres' picks up this story, and includes the
great circle networks discussion. That book also helps contextualize
Fuller's work (aka "synergetics"), as does 'The King of Infinite Space'.
These are two of the key tomes on my "core syllabus" these days, along with
a discrete math / Python programming book. These books boldly foray into
spatial geometry, which is more experiential than purely flat stuff. In
the computer age, we can afford to think spatially right from the get go,
even if scientific calculators have a hard time keeping up.

http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?messageID=9131175

OK, I think that's enough background and context, given we're hearing a lot
from Zubek. My hypothesis is he's uncomfortable with the prospect of
defending his work as derivative and wants to counter with a sharp
offense. Our debate itself is only valuable (at least to me) if it helps
readers clarify for themselves the concepts under discussion. Sometimes
debate can do that. Philosophies in the past were often presented as
dialogues, as were new scientific theories. Galileo made effective use of
this technique, as did Plato. I have no problem with there being dialog,
as long as it's not just venting, other gaseous phenomena.

Kirby


Date Subject Author
7/13/13
Read Common Core snippet a little distressing
Peter Duveen
7/13/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/13/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Wayne Bishop
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Wayne Bishop
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/15/13
Read Re: [Math 2.0] Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Christian Baune
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/16/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Wayne Bishop
7/16/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Wayne Bishop
7/14/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/16/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/16/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/15/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
CCSSIMath
7/16/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/16/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/16/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/18/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Wayne Bishop
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/17/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Robert Hansen
7/18/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Wayne Bishop
7/18/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/18/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/18/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/20/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/19/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/19/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/19/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/19/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/20/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/21/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
Joe Niederberger
7/23/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/24/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
frank zubek
7/24/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
frank zubek
7/24/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/25/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
frank zubek
7/25/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
kirby urner
7/25/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
frank zubek
7/25/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
frank zubek
7/25/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
frank zubek
7/26/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
frank zubek
7/26/13
Read Re: Common Core snippet a little distressing
frank zubek

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