Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Topic: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Replies: 37   Last Post: Oct 28, 2013 1:31 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
GS Chandy

Posts: 6,719
From: Hyderabad, Mumbai/Bangalore, India
Registered: 9/29/05
Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Posted: Oct 25, 2013 2:40 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

Robert Hansen (RH) posted Oct 24, 2013 3:34 (http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9312104) - GSC's remarks interspersed:
>
> The monkey sense is important?
>
> Try this instead...
>
> "Math smart kids show their gift early, even with
> primitive tasks like comparing quantities and
> counting."
>
> "Music smart kids show their gift early, even with
> primitive tasks, like clapping and singing."
>
> "Sports smart kids show their gift early, even with
> primitive tasks, like running and catching."
>
> The list goes on.
>

In other words, to put it most simply: "Smart kids show their 'smarts' early".

But that has NEVER been denied!!

I don't believe it is denied in the article quoted. The *underlying* issues are quite different, which evidently you appear to be unable to perceive.

I have a couple of questions.

If the truth (the whole truth and the only truth) is contained in your assertion viz.
>
> "Math smart kids show their gift early, even with
> primitive tasks like comparing quantities and
> counting."
>

why then do you feel that:

"Children have to be PUSHED to learn math (and everything else)"??? [The assertion seems to be the core of 'The RH Teaching Philosophy'].

It strikes me that there are some serious contradictions here. There are other contradictions.
>
> Even you, especially you, must see the fallacy of
> making monkey-sense "important" in all this.
>
> The key to these things isn't primitive senses. It's
> the gift, which is much bigger than those primitive
> tasks.
>

Could you possibly specify this *gift* a little more?

As observed, I don't believe it is claimed that monkeys would learn advanced mathematics. (The underlying issues are somewhat different).

It is my understanding that scientifically we know rather little about what motivates children (or adults, for that matter) to exert themselves to learn anything.

Various 'precursors to motivation' are believed to have been identified. But rather little is actually *known* to science about human motivations - except that (in my opinion at least) "Operant Conditioning" has been thoroughly discredited - through traces of it seem to remain in your "PUSHING" theories.

See, for example, Wikipedia on "Motivation" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation and elsewhere on "Theories of Motivation" - http://psychology.about.com/od/psychologytopics/tp/theories-of-motivation.htm - maybe this might convince.

In all of this foncusion, "Maslow's Theories of Needs" do appear to indicate possible ways forward - but we still have very little that is scientifically known.

The "PUSHING" theory of learning" that you have fervently espoused appears, to me at least, to be somewhat like Hugh Lofting's fabulous "Pushme Pullyou" beast.

I do believe that we do need to learn how to 'ENCOURAGE' children (and adults, for that matter) to learn. ['Great' teachers seem to know how to do that quite effectively].

If ENCOURAGEMENT is done effectively, then children (and adults, for that matter) may well PUSH themselves to get themselves over the many difficulties they will encounter in learning anything that's new/unfamiliar.

I.e, Effective 'ENCOURAGEMENT' provided may well "CONTRIBUTE TO" stimulate the learners to do the needed PUSHING of themselves to put forth the quite sizable intellectual effort of learning. The 'desire to learn' comes from within, not because of any 'PUSHING'.
>
> Now, when you read this, you might (if you are lucky)
> think "Yeah, that is be a much simpler explanation.
> How come that isn't what is being written?"
>
> The answer to this is that the "science" of your
> noble profession is so infected and rotten with
> politics, it isn't even rational anymore.
>

Rationality is founded in 'PUSHING'???

When you read the above, you might (if you are lucky)...

(Actually, it is not really about 'luck': it is the scientific system of learning how to look at available evidence in the real world, and then doing appropriately. The 'luck' lies elsewhere).

GSC
(Still Shoveling! Not PUSHING! Not GOADING!")


Date Subject Author
10/23/13
Read The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Louis Talman
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Wayne Bishop
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Louis Talman
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Wayne Bishop
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Louis Talman
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Wayne Bishop
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Louis Talman
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/24/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
GS Chandy
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
GS Chandy
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/25/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/26/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/26/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/27/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/27/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/27/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/27/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/28/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Louis Talman
10/28/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
GS Chandy
10/28/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Louis Talman
10/28/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
GS Chandy
10/28/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger
10/28/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Robert Hansen
10/28/13
Read Re: The monkey-sense is more important than you think.
Joe Niederberger

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.