The Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by NCTM or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math

Notice: We are no longer accepting new posts, but the forums will continue to be readable.

Topic: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Replies: 110   Last Post: Dec 10, 2013 4:33 AM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de

Posts: 3,394
Registered: 10/18/08
Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Posted: Dec 3, 2013 6:42 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

Am Montag, 2. Dezember 2013 21:41:33 UTC+1 schrieb Zeit Geist:


> > The set of positive rational numbers that is less than the natural number n and has not been enumerated by the first n natural numbers grows with n. It is impossible eneumerate all rational numbers, i.e., to remove all rationals from the state of being not enumerated to the state of being enumerated.
>
> >
>
>
>
> Impossible? How about a proof.


How can we prove anything about the limit of an infinite sequence other than by considering the finite formula? In the finite formula we have the set of rationals less than n but not enumerated by naturals less than n:

M_(n) = (M_(n-1) U (n-1, n]) \ q_n
with M_0 = { }

This sequence grows without end.
>
>
>

> > Here the intentional confusion of "for every n in |N" and "for all n in |N" has been used. It has been neglected that beyond every n there are infinitely many following, such that never all can have been used.
>
>
> You are welcome to work your own Mathematical System sans the AoI.


That is not a question about AoI. It simply shows that your kind of matheology blinds its adherents with respect to the fact that
"every rational number can be enumerated if and only if beyond that rational number infinitely many rationals are following."

There is no way to circumvent this simple fact. Closing eyes or stamping feet or shouting axioms will not help.
>
> However, your gripes do Not point out any flaw in the proof.


Of course there is the flaw I mentioned above. Further there is the flaw that the limit has been defined from the scratch. So it belongs to the set of definable numbers. It is irrelevant how that defining happens if only every definition is assumed to be finite. And that is the case - up to now. Perhaps matheologians will also drop that fact.

So you may continue with your matheology, but you know anyhow that it is completely useless. Nothing can be accomplished, even mathematics is contradicted by the fact that never undefinable numbers can result from mathematical operations. The reason is simple: Matheology is self-contradictory as shown above and in many further instances.

Regards, WM


Date Subject Author
12/2/13
Read Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
William Elliot
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
G. A. Edgar
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
gnasher729
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/10/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Robin Chapman
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Michael F. Stemper
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/6/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/6/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/6/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/6/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/6/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Brian Q. Hutchings
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Brian Q. Hutchings
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Brian Q. Hutchings
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
fom
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
albrecht
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
fom
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/8/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
albrecht
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
fom
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
fom
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
fom
12/8/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/8/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
albrecht
12/6/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/6/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Michael F. Stemper
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
fom
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers
Virgil
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers
Virgil
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
gnasher729
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
gnasher729
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
gnasher729
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/7/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/8/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
12/8/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Virgil
12/2/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/4/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
albrecht
12/3/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
albrecht
12/5/13
Read Re: Uncountability of the Real Numbers Without Decimals
Tucsondrew@me.com

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© The Math Forum at NCTM 1994-2018. All Rights Reserved.