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Topic: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Replies: 88   Last Post: Jan 5, 2014 9:31 PM

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Robert Hansen

Posts: 8,410
From: Florida
Registered: 6/22/09
Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Posted: Dec 30, 2013 8:36 PM
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On Dec 30, 2013, at 12:28 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Which kids again? The ones attracted to Devlin's new class?

Huh? You said kids in the ghetto.


> Why no SQL? Because there isn?t any math.
>
> Oh come come, you know better than that. You've got union and intersection, boolean filtering, unique keys. It's a lot of that same set stuff they trucked out in the 60s as New Math.


My point was that if they have stopped teaching the ?math? in math, why would they teach the ?SQL? in SQL? Yeah, in the 60?s, when they were teaching math towards students with some actual talent in the subject, they would have done a decent job with SQL, well, that is of course if SQL had even existed.


>
> With the new PostGIS extensions, your SELECT statements are perhaps within polygons i.e. you may select all street intersections (vertexes, nodes) within a zip code.
>
> In Portland, we might freely copy Tri-Met's open source version of the trip routing software and study that.
>
> You say there's no math in plotting an optimum mixed mode (bus and bike) trip across town? The bike trip planner has the option to plan for least gradient i.e. longer distance but no steep hills. Any math there?
>
> HTML5 has SQL built right in doesn't it? The basic grammar of our day, what makes any web page a reality, is HTML.


You?re breaking up.

> You could say it doesn't have any math either, yet to share math notation on the web you need to understand something about the DOM and JavaScript. MathJax, MathML...
>
> The picture you describe, of the state of public education, sounds rather post-apocalyptic. The situation may be hopeless if you're right.


I don?t want to think it is hopeless, but if 80% of the population doesn?t have talent in something, how do you ever expect the public curriculum in that something to ever return to its former self again? I think they will continue to demand that schools teach everyone algebra and schools will continue to oblige.

But I see hope sometimes. When I see quality vocational programs emerging in school districts I see hope. HTML, despite your characterization, is a great non-mathy and creative career path. Programmers do not design the aesthetics of their sites anymore. Graphics designers do. Programmers also don?t create the gigabytes of imagery in video games. Graphics designers do. Scores of them. But college has to lead the change if vocational options are ever going to be widespread. College has to stop adding fake academic hurdles to every path to citizenship.

We have scores of studies on how to teach fake calculus and fake physics to students that failed fake algebra, but when have you seen a study on how to implement a robust vocational system of education in this country? And they don?t even have to start from scratch, since every other country on the planet already does it that way. In any event, I am not holding my breath.

>
> I favor more exchange programs, more mixing it up, as an antidote to getting too stuck in these ruts.
>
> I hear in Japanese schools the kids rotate helping with food prep and bring the lunches to the classrooms, learning service as well. None of this going to the cafeteria nonsense or, more likely, the fast food joint across the street.
>
> Some schools build in gardening as a part of the curriculum. Public schools. Here in Portland.
>
> More experimentation, not less, is what's needed.
>
> That means loosening the grip of the top-down authoritarians.
>
> At some level my ideology makes me an ally of others NOT getting their marching orders from Washington, DC.
>
> But "not federal" doesn't mean "not public". Rather, it means "public, but under local control" and importing influences selectively, including from Asia and New Zealand (given our geographic location: Cascadia).


Now you?re really breaking up.

You yourself have seen how in better schools (often private schools) they teach SQL and algebra side by side. The whole experience is honors level. We didn?t have ?honors? level when we went to school. What they call ?honors? was just ?standard? level when we went to school. Most schools today do not have ?honors? level curriculums anymore.

Bob Hansen


Date Subject Author
12/24/13
Read Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/24/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
kirby urner
12/24/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/27/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
kirby urner
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
kirby urner
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
kirby urner
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
kirby urner
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
kirby urner
1/1/14
Read Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
Robert Hansen
1/2/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
kirby urner
1/2/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
Robert Hansen
1/5/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
kirby urner
1/5/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
Robert Hansen
1/5/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
kirby urner
1/5/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
Robert Hansen
1/5/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
Robert Hansen
1/5/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
kirby urner
1/5/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
Robert Hansen
1/5/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
kirby urner
1/5/14
Read Re: Why Casual Programming doesn't Exist
Robert Hansen
12/26/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/28/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
12/28/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
kirby urner
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Anna Roys
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/29/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
12/31/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/31/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Anna Roys
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/30/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/31/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
12/31/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
12/31/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
12/31/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/31/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Joe Niederberger
12/31/13
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Louis Talman
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Louis Talman
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/1/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Louis Talman
1/3/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/3/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Louis Talman
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/2/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/3/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/3/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/3/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/3/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/3/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/4/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/4/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/4/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen
1/5/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
GS Chandy
1/5/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Bishop, Wayne
1/5/14
Read Re: Keith Devlin's Online Course
Robert Hansen

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