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Topic: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Replies: 26   Last Post: Feb 22, 2014 8:04 AM

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GS Chandy

Posts: 7,312
From: Hyderabad, Mumbai/Bangalore, India
Registered: 9/29/05
Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Posted: Feb 16, 2014 10:37 PM
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Kirby Urner posted Feb 17, 2014 5:35 AM (http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9389861) - GSC's remarks interspersed:
>
> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 1:29 PM, GS Chandy
> <gs_chandy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

> > Further my post dt. Feb 16, 2014 12:09 PM (
> >

> http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?messageID=9389645?
> ):

> >
> > >
> > I believe it should be easy enough to determine
> genetically that we
> > Indians today are actually an 'amalgam' of many
> racial 'colour-types' -
> > 'brown', 'black', 'ivory' and 'yellow': the 'brown'
> and the 'black' being
> > predominant, of course.
> >

>
> The question is whether "racial" means anything in
> your sentence. Yes,
> there are proteins that influence skin color which
> trace back to one's
> genetic ability to protect from / absorb sunlight.
> Trees also have darker
> barks towards the equator on average, or so I'm told.
> Humans vary with
> geography, that much is obvious.
>
> In the 1800s and early 1900s it was still fashionable
> to try tying some
> "five (or seven) races of man" to the Adam & Eve
> story. You had these
> timelines starting from Eden, going through the Tower
> of Babel, which is
> where the religious imams (preachers) said the races
> began. This mishmash
> of fantasy and geography is where our concept of
> "race" comes from,
> about as "scientific" as Lord of the Rings. Here in
> Cascadia at least,
> there's some "debunking" of the race concept going
> on, including in
> academic circles, e.g. at Willamette U., with
> spillover into popular
> thinking, e.g OMSI (science museum's) science pub.
>
> http://mybizmo.blogspot.com/2012/10/omsi-science-on-ra
> ce.html
>

I plan to look carefully at the 'OMSI' websites. At initial glance, seems most interesting.

In regard to human races, 'gene-types', 'allocation of intelligence to various races', etc, etc, I can only quote the words Shakespeare gave to Hamlet: "There are more things, Horatio,..."

It's all one crazy mish-mash as you've stated, as the following 'anecdotal instances' may indicate:

For instance, Ramanujam is known to have been 'transcendentally intelligent' in regard to his 'math intelligence' (if there be such a human characteristic at all). He himself was said to be extremely superstitious, ascribing all his powers to the goddess Namagiri (I believe).

As you know, Ramanujam was a South Indian Brahmin - who mostly reckon themselves to be 'Aryan' in 'racial origin'. But Ramanujam himself in appearance did not seem to be 'Aryan' at all - he looked very close in terms of 'racial type' to one of our aborigines, those who were driven into the jungles of India in ages past by the all-conquering Aryans. India is a fascinating mix created over the millennia of 'racial types' and 'human characteristics' - and I do not believe there is any science capable of 'figuring it all out'.

(As to how that goddess Namagiri came to figure in Ramanujam's pantheon I cannot immediately say: doubtless there are many theories).

>From our legends: as you may know, the god-figure Krishna is said to have been 'blue' in skin-colour: he is in fact known as the 'blue god'. He is said, according to Hindu legends, to have been an extraordinary womanizer, able to charm women in hordes (and they still flock to his worship).

I've long believed the legend of Krishna to have been based on the real 'exploits' of one of those aborigines in our ancient past, one who did in fact possess just such an extraordinarily charismatic personality.

It so happens that quite a few South Indians are even today so dark in colour as to appear almost 'blue-black'. As you may imagine, such ideas when I express them are not very well received by those Indians who believe they're descended from the Aryans solely.
>
> You say "I've since looked at the Wikipedia entry on
> 'Cascadia'. For some
> reason, I'm unable to wrap my mind around it. Shall
> try again."
>
> Think of Cascadia as a like a Pakistan in the upper
> left corner of India,
> uneasy at still being a part of the Federation, as
> one of most recent
> joiners -- kind of like Alaska in that way.
>
> Hawaii is already thinking "outside the box" and may
> one day join a
> federation of Pacific island destinations,
> proclaiming liberty from all
> former colonial masters (Japan and/or the US and/or
> Russia and/or China
> and/or France -- India is too far east, or west
> depending how you look at
> it, to be considered a Pacific player, though one
> could say the same for
> France...).
>
> Some critics say that will mess up the USA's 50
> stars, if Hawaii leaves.
> Maybe that would be just the right time to pick up
> Puerto Rico, just to
> keep the stars numbering at 50 (more convenient for
> everyone that way). Or
> admit DC to the union with full statehood, if Puerto
> Rico says no.
>

> > I am not adequately knowledgeable about the science
> of how various
> > 'gene-types' express themselves in succeeding
> generations to say anything
> > authoritative here. Any college student of biology
> etc should be able to
> > correct me on this.
> >

>
> You can track all manner of genetic sequences and
> patterns down through the
> generations, but whether it all adds up to a coherent
> concept of "races" is
> quite another matter. My view is the more we learn
> about genetics, the
> more "races" fade away, kind of like the "four
> humors" of alchemy.
>
> Racists are superstitious about some "racial essence"
> which they cannot
> define. They may claim modern genetics is only
> refining their
> understanding but I've not seen any well-reasoned
> articles to that effect
> in any reputable journals. In the scientific
> literature at least, I think
> racist concepts are on the wane.
>

See above, about Ramanujam and Sri Krishna.

I do hope we learn to treat these racial concepts as they deserve to be treated: INTO THE GARBAGE BIN WITH THEM!!!
>
> >
> > My thoughts about how the 'red' also may be a part

> of our 'Indian mix'
> > come from some memories I have of my wanderings
> during the mid-sixties in
> > the Sikkim and
> > Indo-Tibetan Himalayas: in the higher reaches, I

> VERY often encountered
> > individuals who looked like the photographs I had
> seen in National
> > Geographic, etc, of people inhabiting the Andean
> mountains! (Spitting
> > images, actually!)
> >
> > As earlier noted, my scientific understanding of

> such phenomena is very
> > limited indeed.
> >
> > GSC
> >

>
> People have been getting around and mixing it up for
> a long time.
>
> In the Pacific Northwest, we talk about a "Clovis"
> people here as long ago
> as 13K years ago. Their exact ancestry is still in
> dispute (is unknown).
> The sea levels were a lot lower back then and the
> Atlantic was much smaller
> too, with long-ago submerged continental shelves
> still land back then.
>
> The last ice age was only just coming to an end and
> much of the Earth's
> water was still caught up in those still receding
> glaciers.
>
> http://www.npr.org/2014/02/13/276021092/ancient-dna-ti
> es-native-americans-from-two-continents-to-clovis
>
> Kirby
>

I shall look at that 'npr.org' site soonest possible.

GSC


Date Subject Author
2/9/14
Read Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Domenico Rosa
2/10/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Robert Hansen
2/10/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Domenico Rosa
2/11/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Joe Niederberger
2/11/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy
2/11/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Robert Hansen
2/12/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy
2/14/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Joe Niederberger
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
kirby urner
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Robert Hansen
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
kirby urner
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Robert Hansen
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
kirby urner
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Joe Niederberger
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Joe Niederberger
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Robert Hansen
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
kirby urner
2/15/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
Domenico Rosa
2/16/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy
2/16/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy
2/16/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy
2/16/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy
2/16/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy
2/16/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
kirby urner
2/16/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy
2/22/14
Read Re: Masters of psycho-babble and edu-speak
GS Chandy

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