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Topic: Structured Programming
Replies: 103   Last Post: Mar 25, 2014 12:33 AM

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GS Chandy

Posts: 7,218
From: Hyderabad, Mumbai/Bangalore, India
Registered: 9/29/05
Re: Structured Programming
Posted: Mar 9, 2014 1:16 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

Robert Hansen (RH) posted Mar 3, 2014 5:53 AM (http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9399828:

RH's concluding paragraph:
>
> Your real problem in this discussion is that you
> cannot for the life of you, understand artistry. You
> didn?t understand it in our ?particular? discussion
> and you don?t understand it now. In fact, you don?t
> comprehend it so much that you still think I am doing
> some sort of a trick.
>

I cannot for the life of me understand how RH arrived at his 'concluding paragraph' about artistry and stuff from all that went before. It is true that I am not expert at s/w programming - but I have admired 'artistry' in the writings of various high-level s/w designers.

(RH's post is copied below my signature for ready reference).

GSC
("Still Shoveling! Not PUSHING!! Not GOADING!!!")
> On Mar 2, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Joe Niederberger
> <niederberger@comcast.net> wrote:
>

> > Its a simple matter of knowing what the term-of-art
> "structured programming" means in the usual contexts
> its employed in. Hansen *never* wants to use words
> with their usual meanings in the usual contexts. I
> think its simply lack of education. When called, he
> gets bizarrely elaborate, as do many of his kindred
> spirits.
>
> Do you understand what you are asking me to do? You
> are asking me to discard decades of experience and
> hundreds of thousands of lines of code, so that I can
> adhere to a puny school-taught notion of structured
> programming. What happens when someone asks you "How
> did they code without the GOTO statement??
>
> For example. The following is a typical case of an
> IF/THEN/ELSE structure, in a language without blocks.
>
> 100 IF x < 10 THEN GOTO 200
> 110 GOTO 300
>
> 200 Statement 1
> 210 Statement 2
> 220 Statement 3
> 230 GOTO 400
>
> 300 Statement 4
> 310 Statement 5
> 320 Statement 6
>
> 400 ?
>
> Do you see how you have to hop over the (logical)
> blocks of code with goto statements? You cannot write
> structured IF/THEN/ELSE patterns without goto
> statements in a language that doesn?t support blocks.
> And your reward for using best practices? You get to
> keep track of hundreds of labels and god forbid you
> have to add more statements or refactor things a bit.
> But as Lou pointed out, that is what a (good)
> programmer did because, as tedious as it was, that
> was still the best way to break a problem down, into
> a series of steps. Assembler was tons worse.
>
> Add BEGIN/END and things change enormously for the
> better?
>
> IF x < 10 BEGIN
> Statement 1
> Statement 2
> Statement 3
> END
> ELSE BEGIN
> Statement 1
> Statement 2
> Statement 3
> END
>
> The same structure but behind the scenes the compiler
> is doing all of those GOTOs for you. You don?t have
> to worry about a bunch of labels. Talk about a load
> lifted! And we didn?t even get to the local scope you
> now have. You don?t have to declare dozens of TEMPnn
> and DUMMYnn variables because now you can keep using
> the same meaningful names in block after block
> because they are now in their own scope.
>
> I don?t see what I have said as being overly
> elaborate. I have a lot of experience and a lot more
> on this subject than what I displayed here. I lived
> all of this. Asking me to trade all of that for your
> notion of structured programming is impossible at
> this point. I am also flummoxed that you keep calling
> me uneducated, but used to it, so don?t stop.
>
> Your real problem in this discussion is that you
> cannot for the life of you, understand artistry. You
> didn?t understand it in our ?particular? discussion
> and you don?t understand it now. In fact, you don?t
> comprehend it so much that you still think I am doing
> some sort of a trick.
>
> Bob Hansen



Date Subject Author
3/6/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/6/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/7/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/7/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/7/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/7/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/8/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/15/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/14/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/14/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/15/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/17/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/20/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/25/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy

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