Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Topic: Structured Programming
Replies: 103   Last Post: Mar 25, 2014 12:33 AM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
kirby urner

Posts: 1,705
Registered: 11/29/05
Re: Structured Programming
Posted: Mar 15, 2014 3:52 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply
att1.html (8.1 K)

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, GS Chandy <gs_chandy@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Kirby Urner (KU) posted Mar 14, 2014 9:41 AM (
> http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9411805) - GSC's remarks
> interspersed:
>
>


> I do try not to stereotype things (as best I can).
>
> i) I had considered the cases of both 'monied', privileged individuals AND
> 'poor' individuals.
>
> ii) I had qualified the words "monied", "poor" and "spoilt" by putting
> them between single quotes, more or less to indicate that I was aware of
> the stereotyping that often occurs.
>
>

What's difficult to quantify sometimes are the non-monetary aspects of a
scenario. Maslow, as in hierarchy-of-needs Maslow, advised trying to
assign a monetary value to everything of considering a change in job or
career or whatever. By some measures, peasants in Ladahk have it made, the
perfect life style, and pushing them into apartments and office jobs is in
no way a step up.[1]

http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2011/01/economics-of-happiness-movie-review.html

The point of my post was I am very wealthy in terms of having access to
engineering tools that no one had anywhere until quite recently. To be
able to compute (1 + 1/n)*(1 + 1/n)*(1 + 1/n)....(1 + 1/n) for n such
terms, and to converge to a specific number less than three ( e < 3 ) with
300 decimal digits of accuracy... new. Some would say trivial. I'd say:
in schools, we should not dismiss such powers.

Yesterday was pi Day but I was thinking about e Day.

Remember my story of that police department, unhappy at being used as "the
bad guy" to scare students about the Internet, versus sharing it with
police as a playground, a place to explore without driving fast while
drinking and killing someone, which they get tired of seeing. Cyberia
should not be a place to wall off. We should build more virtual schools
there. No one need think of you as "poor" if you just send your avatar. A
layer of anonymity gets added we might as well use to pedagogical /
andragogical advantage.


> That said, I do believe it is fair to suggest that 'privileged people'
> often do take the great good fortune of their privileges for granted, so to
> speak, and often do not use their abilities effectively, i.e., they get
> 'spoilt' by the privileges they enjoy, and do not really understand that
> much of their privilege derives from factors way beyond their personal
> competence levels.
>


> probably my favorite though. Is TinTin 1%? How
> about Snowy?
>


This was a Belgian comic.


Well, when I was a kid I rather rarely read comics, though I was familiar
> with Capt Marvel, Superman, Batman, etc. I enjoyed Mad Magazine (a bit
> later, I think). However, I would not by choice spend my limited pocket
> money or earned money on them; I did spend a lot on books.

> >
>


Here are some more recent paragraphs I think RH might agree with:

In algebra we get to ask: what would x have to
be to make this equation true? x is asked to
"satisfy" some equation. Later, a whole cast
may be asked to bring satisfaction to a whole
"system of equations". This is where our concept
of "algorithm" enters in i.e. if there's a way to
squeeze actual solutions from this puzzle, by
turning some wheels as it were, we want to
know about it.

Here I'd say computer math does not substitute
for human genius in actually discovering some
algorithms. The computer becomes the recording
device for recording the step-by-step routines,
once the beginning inputs are known, the para-
meters of a given equation. The computer is
the new executor for the algorithm, not someone
paid "to compute" i.e. we no longer hire based
on mental arithmetic skills as a spreadsheet or
other electronic computing context is assumed.
We have been relieved of that responsibility, as
far as business is concerned.

In other words, I think RH and I agree that once you have that fluency in
Algebra where you understand variables may have many values substituted for
them i.e. they are not constants, but more like placeholders, then you're
ready to "transcribe" the algorithms you learn about in math, to the
computer language you're learning to use in your computer math class.

Comprehension of the algebra, the math behind the process, including the
proofs of any relied-upon theorems, gives you the confidence to translate
that deep understanding into working code for storage and sharing with
peers and mentors. You are likewise a consumer of other peoples code and
benefit from all the hard but often fun work of transcribing algorithms
into computer languages.

Conversely, those coming to a deep topic and not knowing the theorems, may
start from the other end, studying the algorithms as a way to prepare
ourselves to learn more of the generalizations at the core. I don't want
to belittle the "tourists" anymore than I want to be dismissed or belittled
just because I've strayed from my beaten path and gotten into a fresh topic
area I know little or nothing about.

For example, without knowing Euler's Theorem about totients, a
generalization of Fermat's so-called "little" theorem, you can still start
to appreciate the power of encrypting using RSA, an algorithm. You study
the algorithm as a means of climbing into the deeper math, which requires
defining concepts such as "totient" in the first place.

In computer math ("CS-enabled algebra"), we'll do that (teach about Euler's
Theorem, about totients), and not because we think it's rocket science or
super hard. Just run-o-the-mill stuff, this RSA cook book recipe, and used
in every web browser, part of https protocol.[2]

Writing the code for RSA is a way to learn it. That's the approach taken
in the high school math book we both think highly of, used with kids of
privilege (privileged by definition, if they get to use such books):
Mathematics for the Digital Age and Programming in Python.[3]

Kirby

[1] The Economics of Happiness
http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2011/01/economics-of-happiness-movie-review.html

[2] RSA, what it is and where it's used:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RSAEncryption.html
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3968095/how-does-https-provide-security

[3] some of my own crypto stuff, by now somewhat dated:
http://4dsolutions.net/ocn/crypto0.html


Date Subject Author
3/6/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/6/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/7/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/7/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/7/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/7/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/8/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/9/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/10/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/11/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/12/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/15/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/13/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/14/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/14/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy
3/15/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/16/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/17/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/20/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/18/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Louis Talman
3/19/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
Joe Niederberger
3/25/14
Read Re: Structured Programming
GS Chandy

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.