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Topic: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Replies: 84   Last Post: Mar 26, 2014 5:46 AM

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kirby urner

Posts: 1,757
Registered: 11/29/05
Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Posted: Mar 19, 2014 11:13 PM
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On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Robert Hansen <bob@rsccore.com> wrote:

> On Mar 19, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Joe Niederberger <niederberger@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>

> > I quoted Leibniz (translated), I didn't write about him. What he said in
> his own words contradicts your imaginary history of ideas. Get a clue.
>
> I don't have a clue. Please explain how this demolishes my distinctions.
>
> Bob Hansen
>


I'll butt in to suggest in what way JN feels he is showing BH's vocabulary
to be scrambled eggs, by his citing / quoting Leibniz.

BH has advanced a definition of "religious" that it means "faith in
unproved beliefs".

http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9413996

JN is showing that Leibniz, holding just such beliefs (religious /
unproved) came by that faith to espouse what we would call the scientific
world view: that nature follows exceptionless rules and/or principles.

The Davies article was making the point that the scientific world view is
not obvious. We might live in a more capricious world. What got us to
science was our faith, for which evidence needed to be amassed, in some set
of exceptionless principles that might be over the course of time
discovered by the human mind.

So how can we distinguish between the faith that commits us to science
(thinking of Catholics doing astronomy in their state-of-the-art
observatory, or Teilhard de Chardin, the evolutionist Jesuit) and the faith
that commits us to non-scientific thinking ala Kierkegaard? Both seem to
derive equally from faith.

BH's reply is that whereas "religious belief" is completely unjustified,
the kind of faith that leads to scientific discovery and perhaps new
synthetic judgments a priori, by pure reason, is not "belief" at all, but
"mental feelings" and "mental feelings" are distinct from "beliefs".

According to BH's terminology, if we have some phony baloney belief that
turns out to be crazy, that was by definition "a religious belief" or a
"belief in general".

"Mental feelings" on the other hand, lead to scientific discovery and
rational constructs.

So, per BH's terminology, if you want to be on the side of science, make
sure your feelings are really mental and not of the belief type, as the
latter feelings just lead to phony baloney religion, whereas truly *mental*
feelings reveal scientific truth, of the kind Leibniz possibly uncovered --
other than his believing in a god part).

Kirby


Date Subject Author
3/16/14
Read How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
GS Chandy
3/16/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/17/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/17/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/17/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/17/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/17/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/17/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Louis Talman
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/18/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Louis Talman
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Louis Talman
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/21/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/21/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/21/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/21/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/22/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/22/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Gary Tupper
3/21/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Domenico Rosa
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Louis Talman
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/19/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Louis Talman
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/20/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/21/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/21/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/21/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Robert Hansen
3/21/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Joe Niederberger
3/23/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
GS Chandy
3/23/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
GS Chandy
3/24/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
GS Chandy
3/25/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
GS Chandy
3/25/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
kirby urner
3/25/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
GS Chandy
3/26/14
Read Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
GS Chandy

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