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Topic: § 488 Who said this?
Replies: 187   Last Post: May 7, 2014 10:06 AM

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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de

Posts: 15,773
Registered: 1/29/05
Re: § 488 Who said this?
Posted: May 1, 2014 4:07 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Thursday, 1 May 2014 01:02:03 UTC+2, Ralf Bader wrote:
> mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de wrote:
>
>
>

> > On Wednesday, 30 April 2014 22:07:44 UTC+2, Ralf Bader wrote:
>
> >> Virgil wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> > In article <334606b4-bd5f-41cb-9957-14a06e672170@googlegroups.com>,
>
> >>
>
> >> > mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> >> The original German text by Zermelo contains this phrase: "diese
>
> >>
>
> >> >> scheinbar so fruchtbare Hypothese des Unendlichen". That means Zermelo
>
> >>
>
> >> >> says that set theory is not really fruitful but seems only to be
>
> >> >> fruitful
>
> >>
>
> >> >> while in fact it is not.
>
> >>
>
> >> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> >> I am convinced Zermelo did not know or at least did
>
> >>
>
> >> >> not use this distinction. Of course he wanted to express that set
>
> >> >> theory
>
> >>
>
> >> >> is apparently fruitful, but what he really said is: set theory seems
>
> >> >> to
>
> >>
>
> >> >> be fruitful but is not. And that is the truth in fact.
>
> >>
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> > It may be that what Zermelo said can be intrepreted in German as WM
>
> >>
>
> >> > claims, but that does not mean that it should be.
>
> >>
>
> >> > WM himself admits that that is not what Zemelo intented to say, and we
>
> >>
>
> >> > have only WM's unnsuppored and unsupportable claim that WM'sc
>
> >>
>
> >> > interpretation states a truth.
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> >>
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> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> > Considering WM's track record at quote mining, I do not choose to
>
> >> > accept
>
> >>
>
> >> > WM's interpretation of anyone else's statements.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> So Zermelo somewhere sometimes asked that question "Couldn't just the
>
> >>
>
> >> seemingly so fruitful hypothesis of the infinite have straightly inserted
>
> >>
>
> >> contradictions into mathematics and have fundamentally distroyed the
>
> >> basic
>
> >>
>
> >> nature of this science which is so proud on its consistency?"
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> The answer Zermelo probably gave on this question seems to be
>
> >> uninteresting
>
> >>
>
> >> to Mückenheim, but he produces in his usual idiotic manner a pile of
>
> >>
>
> >> nonsense about Zeremelo being unable to correctly distinguish
>
> >> "anscheinend"
>
> >>
>
> >> and "scheinbar". Well, if the hypothesis of the infinite leads to
>
> >>
>
> >> contradictions then it was only "scheinbar" fruitful;
>
> >
>
> > In that case Zermelo had not have to ask his question but then he had
>
> > already answered it - in the negative. Try some logic.
>
> >
>
> > Regards, WM
>
>
>
> He probably asked the question in order to answer it in the negative (what
> else but a negative answer should be expected from a person keeping close to
> Zermelo's outlook?)


As usual, you are wrong. Zermelo answered no which shows that his question is not a rhetorical. Originally I had scheduled his answer for a later "Who said this", but you appear (anscheinend) to be in need of information. He answered: "we cannot immediately dismiss without closer consideration the possibility
that our mathematics rests on contradictions. But, now, can the consistency
of ("infinitistic") arithmetic itself be proved by logico-mathematical
means? [...] it is,is, in my opinion, not possible to furnish a formal proof of the consistency." And what else would be valid in formal mathematics???


> Thank you for showing that you are unable to understand
> those rhetoric procedures as well as the ways in which hypotheses are
> introduced and eliminated


I have shown how the question has to be answered: Transfinity implies undefinable "real" numbers, i.e., numbers that cannot be mentioned or hinted to in any text - and that is a contradiction for every one who is not a Fool Of Matheology", in particular for every mathematician.

Regards, WM


Date Subject Author
4/29/14
Read § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/29/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/29/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
4/29/14
Read wTf
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
thenewcalculus@gmail.com
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Ralf Bader
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Ralf Bader
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: ï¿∏ 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Peter Percival
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Peter Percival
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Roland Franzius
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Peter Percival
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read OT: Lord Longford (was Re: § 488 Who
said this?)
Robin Chapman
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/6/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/7/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
thenewcalculus@gmail.com

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