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Topic: § 488 Who said this?
Replies: 187   Last Post: May 7, 2014 10:06 AM

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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de

Posts: 16,057
Registered: 1/29/05
Re: � 488 Who said this?
Posted: May 3, 2014 3:26 AM
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On Friday, 2 May 2014 22:55:00 UTC+2, Virgil wrote:


> Only because they cannot INDIVIDUALLY constructed or defined, but they
> can be collectively defined


If you cannot individually address a number, then it does not exist in mathematics understood as dialogue. Then the collectively defined set exists, but it has no elements. It does not obey the ZFC axioms according to which the elements must be ditinguishable. In short, it is not a set in ZFC. Or even shorter, it is not a set.


> one can define sets which contain
> undefineable members


No. Aiom of Extensionality. You cannot determine whether or not two such sets are different. Further, Pair, subset, sum set: All these axioms cannot be satisfied.
>
> Consider D as the set of all finite definitions and 2^D as the set of
> all subsets of D.
>

I do.
>
> Does WM cLaim that D MUST contains a unique different member for each
> member of 2^D?


Not in actual infinity.
>
>
>
> That would require a surjection f: D --> 2^D .


Yes.
>
>
>
> But for ANY function f from D to 2^D , S ={d in D: d not in f(d)} is a
> member of 2^D which is not of form f(d).


So you have proved the idea wrong that infinite bijections have any meaning.
>
>
>
> Thus no f:D -> 2^D can be surjective and thus there are "more" members
> in 2^D that in D.


There are more definable members. But all definable members, bijected by anotehr method with |N are proven to be countable.

Such results in mathematics are called contradictions. Therefore either mathematics is rubbish or one of the assumptions of this "proof". I guess, the assumption of finished infinity is this rotten piece.
>
> Thus there cannot be any such surjection, and must alwasys be
> undefneable objects in any system having a set of definitions that is in
> any way limited.


You have not shown an undefinable object. You have shown that the definable objects are uncountable. I have shown that according to the standards of set theory, the definable objects are countable. You cannot reject that contradiction by over and over again repeating your "proof".

Transfinite set theory has been proven self contradictory. Only blindly believing matheologians can avoid to recognize this.

Regards, WM




Date Subject Author
4/29/14
Read § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/29/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/29/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
4/29/14
Read wTf
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/29/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Brian Q. Hutchings
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
thenewcalculus@gmail.com
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Ralf Bader
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Ralf Bader
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/30/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/1/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/1/14
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Virgil
5/2/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: ï¿∏ 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
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Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
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Virgil
4/30/14
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Virgil
5/1/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/1/14
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Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
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Dan Christensen
5/2/14
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Peter Percival
5/2/14
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Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
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Dan Christensen
5/2/14
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Dan Christensen
5/2/14
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Peter Percival
5/2/14
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Roland Franzius
5/2/14
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Dan Christensen
5/2/14
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Peter Percival
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read OT: Lord Longford (was Re: § 488 Who
said this?)
Robin Chapman
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
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Dan Christensen
5/2/14
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Virgil
5/2/14
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Dan Christensen
5/2/14
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Virgil
5/2/14
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Dan Christensen
5/3/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
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Dan Christensen
5/3/14
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Dan Christensen
5/3/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
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Dan Christensen
5/3/14
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Virgil
5/4/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
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Virgil
5/6/14
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
5/4/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
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Dan Christensen
5/4/14
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Virgil
5/3/14
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Virgil
5/4/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
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Tucsondrew@me.com
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
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Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
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Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
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Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
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Virgil
5/4/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
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Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
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Virgil
5/5/14
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Virgil
5/3/14
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Virgil
5/3/14
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Virgil
5/3/14
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Virgil
5/2/14
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Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
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Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
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Virgil
5/2/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/2/14
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Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
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Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
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Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
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Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
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Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/3/14
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Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Brian Q. Hutchings
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Tucsondrew@me.com
5/5/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
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Virgil
5/3/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Dan Christensen
5/4/14
Read Re: � 488 Who said this?
Virgil
5/7/14
Read Re: § 488 Who said this?
thenewcalculus@gmail.com

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