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Topic: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Replies: 111   Last Post: Jun 18, 2014 1:15 PM

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Cryptoengineer

Posts: 16
Registered: 3/14/14
Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Posted: Jun 5, 2014 2:40 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> wrote in news:lmq6ir$lte$1@dont-email.me:

> On 6/4/2014 8:06 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> In article <lmo5s8$97s$1@dont-email.me>, lmc@winsim.com says...
>>>
>>> On 6/4/2014 6:08 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

>>>> In article
>>>> <virgil-A7CBEB.22141203062014@BIGNEWS.USENETMONSTER.COM>,
>>>> virgil@ligriv.com says...

>>>>>
>>>>> In article <q91to9pss92tlkpc90m6olig413lg2cesr@4ax.com>,
>>>>> kefischer <joefischer@iglou.com> wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 18:40:39 -0600, Virgil <virgil@ligriv.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>

>>>>>>> In article <MPG.2df82c7f3500cb9098a71e@news.newsguy.com>,
>>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeusenet@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> In article <kPCdnTerU499iBPOnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>>>>>>>> ws21 @cornel.edu says...

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/31/14, 9:00 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

>>>>>>>>>> In article <lmcfth$gqk$1@odin.sdf-eu.org>, kym@kymhorsell.com
>>>>>>>>>> says...

>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In sci.physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 30.05.2014 02:36, schrieb R Kym Horsell:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, sure. 1-2 mm/yr c1900, 2-3 mm/yr c2000 -- It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting to compare
>>>>>>>>>>>>> favourably to the last time the ice sheets melted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101201120605.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 Dec 2010 ... Southampton researchers have estimated that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sea-level
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rose by an average of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about 1 metre per century at the end of the last Ice Age,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...

>>>>>>>>>>>> E.g. this article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140528133151.ht
>>>>>>>>>>>> m Quote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "A new study has found that the Antarctic Ice Sheet began
>>>>>>>>>>>> melting about
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5,000 years earlier than previously thought coming out of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the last ice
>>>>>>>>>>>> age -- and that shrinkage of the vast ice sheet accelerated
>>>>>>>>>>>> during eight
>>>>>>>>>>>> distinct episodes, causing rapid sea level rise."
>>>>>>>>>>>> How can they call this 'science'?
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Antarctic is NOT melting AT ALL!
>>>>>>>>>>>> The average temperatures are well below melting point of
>>>>>>>>>>>> water, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>> is little chance for ice to melt.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Antarctica
>>>>>>>>>>>> Icebergs are already floating, hence have no influence on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the sea-levels.

>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your poor addlepated moron.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You seem to believe you can maintain one end of an iceblock
>>>>>>>>>>> at 10C and the other end at -11C and it doesn't melt because
>>>>>>>>>>> its average temperature is <0.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And you also seem to believe all ice found floating on the
>>>>>>>>>>> sea is frozen
>>>>>>>>>>> sea
>>>>>>>>>>> water.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regardless of its source, if it is floating on the sea and it
>>>>>>>>>> melts it has no effect on sea level.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> It does if it wasn't floating in the sea previously, but was
>>>>>>>>> sitting up on land in a glacier. Sea level went up when it
>>>>>>>>> slid in.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And its being frozen or melted has no effect on sea level so
>>>>>>>> what is your point?

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If when frozen it is on land, like glaciers are, but when
>>>>>>> melted will flow into the sea, as most of it will, then it does
>>>>>>> make a difference to the world's sea levels.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably not, because the water was
>>>>>> in the sea in the first place, evaporated,
>>>>>> and fell as snow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And now other water is evaporating,
>>>>>> removing water from the sea, it is the
>>>>>> rain/snow cycle.

>>>>>
>>>>> If the snow and ice reservoirs in glaciers and ice floes like
>>>>> those in Greenland and Antarctica were remaining constant perhaps
>>>>> you would be right, but there is strong evidence that they are
>>>>> melting at an unprecedented rate, and those ice reserves
>>>>> collectively hold enough water in solid form to raise the ocean
>>>>> levels by several meters if they melt away entirely.

>>>>
>>>> I want to know where you're getting your precedents. The deepest
>>>> cores there only go back to the last interglacial, suggesting that
>>>> the entire Greenland icecap was lost at that time, which appears to
>>>> be a "precedent". I don't think that the Antarctic ice cores don't
>>>> really tell us much about loss rates yet as we are sampling in only
>>>> a few places and what has been lost doeesn't show up in the cores
>>>> at all. Perhaps sampling from a wider range of sites will give some
>>>> insight into rates.
>>>>
>>>> Further, get your facts straight. The Greenland icecap would raise
>>>> sea levels by 7 meters. Antarctica would raise it by about 60
>>>> meters. To put this in perspective, the normal sea level
>>>> difference between an interglacial and a glacial maximum is about
>>>> 120 meters.

>>>
>>> Isn't there about 100 meters of water in the North
>>> Sea?
>>>
>>> Wasn't the North Sea dry land during the last
>>> glacial maximum?
>>>
>>> The math for your interglacial and glacial math
>>> needs a few more meters.

>>
>> If there is 100 meters of water in the North Sea and it was dry land
>> during the last glacial maximum that would be consistent with 120
>> meters of sea level change.
>>
>> I'm quoting fairl well accepted numbers, I didn't calculate them.

>
> North Sea Rise = 100 meters
>
> Greenland icecap = 7 meters
>
> Antarctica ice cap = 60 meters
>
> Difference between interglacial and glacial maximum =
> 100 + 7 + 60 = 167 meters
>
> Lynn
>


I think lmc is making a simple error, confusing the
rise since glacial maximum (at least 120m), with the
rise which would occur if the *current* ice caps were
to melt fully about another 67m.

Of course, during the last Ice Age maxima, far more of
the world was covered in ice caps than remains today.

As for the basis for saying the Antartic is losing ice,
this is from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level#Glaciers_and_ice_caps

"Each year about 8 mm (0.3 inches) of water from the entire surface of
the oceans falls onto the Antarctica and Greenland ice sheets as
snowfall. If no ice returned to the oceans, sea level would drop 8 mm
(0.3 in) every year. To a first approximation, the same amount of water
appeared to return to the ocean in icebergs and from ice melting at the
edges. Scientists previously had estimated which is greater, ice going
in or coming out, called the mass balance, important because it causes
changes in global sea level. High-precision gravimetry from satellites
in low-noise flight has since determined that in 2006, the Greenland and
Antarctic ice sheets experienced a combined mass loss of 475 ± 158
Gt/yr, equivalent to 1.3 ± 0.4 mm/yr sea level rise. Notably, the
acceleration in ice sheet loss from 1988-2006 was 21.9 ± 1 Gt/yr² for
Greenland and 14.5 ± 2 Gt/yr² for Antarctica, for a combined total of
36.3 ± 2 Gt/yr². This acceleration is 3 times larger than for mountain
glaciers and ice caps (12 ± 6 Gt/yr²).[5]"

pt


Date Subject Author
5/27/14
Read nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/27/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Peter Percival
5/27/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
5/27/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Mike
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
William December Starr
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Michael J. Strickland
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Greg Goss
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Don Kuenz
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Michael J. Strickland
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Greg Goss
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Michael J. Strickland
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Kirby Grant
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Cryptoengineer
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
5/31/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
William December Starr
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Michael J. Strickland
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
antani
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
R Kym Horsell
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
5/31/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
5/31/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
6/1/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
5/31/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
cloud dreamer
6/2/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Jim G.
6/2/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/2/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
cloud dreamer
6/2/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
2ju
6/2/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/2/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Greg Goss
6/2/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Greg Goss
6/2/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Lynn McGuire
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Greg Goss
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Greg Goss
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Jim G.
6/2/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
William December Starr
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
5/31/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
R Kym Horsell
5/31/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Bill Steele
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
R Kym Horsell
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Virgil
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Peter Trei
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Virgil
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Lynn McGuire
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
R Kym Horsell
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Lynn McGuire
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
David Hartley
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Greg Goss
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Cryptoengineer
6/7/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/8/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
6/8/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/8/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
6/9/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Peter Trei
6/10/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/13/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/17/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/18/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/7/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/7/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
John F. Eldredge
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/6/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Bill Steele
6/5/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Thomas Heger
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
6/4/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
6/3/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
cloud dreamer
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
The Starmaker
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
cloud dreamer
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
kefischer
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Michael J. Strickland
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke
5/28/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
William December Starr
5/29/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Peter Trei
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
Michael J. Strickland
5/30/14
Read Re: nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
J. Clarke

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