Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Topic: From the Notices of the AMS
Replies: 71   Last Post: Jun 23, 2014 3:56 AM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
GS Chandy

Posts: 7,043
From: Hyderabad, Mumbai/Bangalore, India
Registered: 9/29/05
Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Posted: Jun 14, 2014 6:09 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

Joe N. posted Jun 12, 2014 11:07 PM (http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9485154):
>
> Let me start picking apart Mark Saul's critique one
> point at a time. He sees the notion of coherence
> talked about my Ma as problematic. He seems at a loss
> to know really what she's talking about.
>
> Can it be he does not see arithmetic as a coherent
> subject? (It seems wild, but that could be the case.)
>

It really is not the 'coherence of arithmetic (as a discipline)' [A] that is at issue, and this should be entirely obvious to all of us.

There IS some doubt about the "coherence of the 'discipline of the teaching of arithmetic'" [B].

'A' and 'B' are entirely different animals.
>
> After posing and knocking down a couple strawmen in
> quick succession, he puts up his "real" argument:
> some kids may not get a point in arithmetic because
> of differing underlyingreasons, arguing that in fact
> distinctly different cognitive abilities may be to
> blame for different sorts of misconceptions (pg.
> 505).
>

The strawman, if any, is only in seeking to conflate 'A' and 'B'.

I'll grant that this strawman is probably not being created deliberately (as was that created by Haim and Robert Hansen when they claimed "OPMS is just list-making and nothing else!'

Here it is (more likely) a simple confusion between two closely related but definitely quite different 'systems'. Such confusions are fairly common when people aren't accustomed to 'systems thinking'.

There are analogies of sorts in the 'machine world' to which we've already grown pretty well accustomed over the past couple of centuries.

For example, I believe that when automobiles first came out onto the roads, some people believed they were manifestations of the devil because there were no horses pulling them along!

The "Cargo Cults" of the South Pacific (http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/cargocult.htm) may also be appostie in this context.
>
> Now, how does that support his claim that Ma's
> "coherence" is in fact illusory or problematic? I
> don't think it does in the least. A coherent subject
> does not imply that a single cognitive ability
> underlies or supports it.
>
> In fact, Saul quickly abandons his claim of
> "coherence" being problematic, and instead jumps to
> the conclusion that one was really teaching
> arithmetic in order to strengthen these underlying
> cognitive skills. We teach arithmetic in order to
> teach logic, to paraphrase him.
>

I'm not at all supporting Mark Saul's arguments; in fact, I've pointed out elsewhere (http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9477972) a grave flaw in his suggestions.
QUOTE
.... However, (Saul) hasn't shown us any practical means of just HOW to fit together these disparate views, HOW to create his suggested 'synthesis' (in a systematic way).
UNQUOTE
But his view that it may well be useful to learn how to 'synthesise', if possible, the claimed 'coherence' of the 'Chinese system' of education in elementary math and the perceived 'incoherence' of the US system.

The rest of Joe N.'s post is pasted below my signature.

GSC
The rest of Joe N.'s post:
>
> People say things like this all the time: we teach
> sports in school because it teaches other socially
> desirable qualities, yadda yadda. But why make this
> claim about arithmetic? We all use arithmetic
> everyday in our lives. Do we need to justify it on
> other grounds? Why?
>
> So, is arithemtic a coherent subject or not? Why do
> we teach it? Is it really just a delivery system for
> logic?
>
> Cheers,
> Joe N
>
> ------- End of Forwarded Message


------- End of Forwarded Message


Date Subject Author
6/2/14
Read From the Notices of the AMS
Louis Talman
6/3/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/3/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/3/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/3/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Louis Talman
6/3/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/4/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/3/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/3/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/4/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/4/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/4/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/4/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/4/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/4/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/4/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/7/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/7/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/7/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/7/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/12/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/12/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/12/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/13/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/13/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/14/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/14/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/14/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/14/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/14/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/14/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Joe Niederberger
6/14/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/15/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Bishop, Wayne
6/15/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/15/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/15/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/15/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/16/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/16/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/17/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/17/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/21/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Louis Talman
6/21/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/22/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Bishop, Wayne
6/17/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/17/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/17/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/18/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/18/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/18/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Louis Talman
6/18/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/19/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Louis Talman
6/19/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/19/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Louis Talman
6/19/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/20/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Louis Talman
6/18/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/20/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/19/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/19/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/20/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Bishop, Wayne
6/20/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/21/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Louis Talman
6/22/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Bishop, Wayne
6/19/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/20/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/20/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
Robert Hansen
6/20/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/21/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/23/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/21/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
GS Chandy
6/21/14
Read Re: From the Notices of the AMS
israeliteknight

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.