Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Topic: Why do so many of us hate math?
Replies: 174   Last Post: Jul 24, 2014 2:21 AM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Robert Hansen

Posts: 7,705
From: Florida
Registered: 6/22/09
Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Posted: Jul 4, 2014 11:19 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply


On Jun 29, 2014, at 5:50 PM, Ray <rayrainer1@gmail.com> wrote:

>> You could put a million kids into nature and not one of them is going to come up with the concept of measure or angle, let alone something built on these concepts like the Pythagorean theorem.
>
> I agree but that is not really what I mean. I keep trying to type something meaningful but it is not easy. Perhaps I should just explain by way of my personal experience. Maybe that will help to get my point through, instead of philosophizing about things I am not an expert in. I also realize there are a lot of variables that makes education difficult.
>
> I am one of those students, after completing High School, who was practically illiterate. I could recite the multiplication tables but that?s about as far as it goes. I did learn to type which proved to be useful over the years but it ends there. So I understand the lack of knowledge that one can have after 12 grueling years of schooling.
>
> I realized at the end of taking Calculus II in College, I didn?t understand what I was doing. Since I had a poor math background, I took a very brief and useless geometry class, Algebra I & II, Trigonometry, pre-calculus and Calculus I & II.
>
> I became very proficient in manipulating formulas but I didn?t understand anything, I later realized. It is amazing what you can do when you put your mind to it. It is also amazing that I could even get to Calculus II and ended with a B in it without really understanding anything. I really must emphasize "anything". So I decided Math was just not something I should pursue.
> I also had an interest in Art. I had previously had some success in Art school. So after College I thought that perhaps I had a poor knowledge of Geometry. So I picked up this excellent Geometry book by Harold Jacobs and became engrossed in it. I did all the exercise. I definitely had a poor understanding of Geometry.
>
> I became particularly fascinated with the Polyhedrons which were in that book. So I started to create all the polyhedrons with cardboard. I would paint them very colorful. I then decided to create a 5 foot mobile by inscribing all the polyhedrons in the 5 foot metal rings I purchased.
>
> I decided to use wood which made it more difficult because I needed to also solve the angles in how the shapes are joined together. I purchased a table saw, so that I could get the precise rip cut, so the polygons would fit together properly. I also then started to expand the polyhedrons by cutting the tips or adding pyramid type shapes on the polygons. As well as stretching the polyhedron.
>
> I then proceed to figure out what the sizes would be needed to fit those polyhedrons in that 5 foot ring. I must amazed at how the cube fit nicely inside the Dodecahedron. From this I was able to figure out the diameter of Dodecahedron, as well as the cube and how the Icosahedron had a reciprocal relationship with the Dodecahedron. How neatly the Tetrahedron fit in the cube and lastly the Octahedron.
>
> After doing all this, along with following the book, Trigonometry started to make sense to me. I was so clueless that I didn?t even understand what Pi really was. Or even a radius. I now understood how important the Pythagorean Theorem is. What a square root is. I understood what those numbers in the trig tables mean. What a Sine, Cosine, tangent is. It just all came together. I began to understand how the Pythagorean Theorem related to Calculus in solving for the slope of a tangent line.
>
> I also realized that I really didn?t totally understand what a ratio and a proportion is. I also realized how the concept of equality wasn?t really clear to me. I think that my confusion with equality was that I saw equality as sameness and didn?t focus on the bigger picture of proportion. So I never understood how a ratio, a proportion and equality all related to each other. I then realized they are different but they are also similar. They weave in and out of each other.
>
> A also had a Zen experience with perhaps the most simple formula of all: If A = B, and B=C, then A=C. It just came to me how important that formula is. Perhaps this is the heart of Mathematics. I could give many more examples of concepts I lacked and how I came to understand them by myself just by wanting to understand.
>
> I didn?t continue any academic Mathematical classes after that. I went on to other things. I got married and ended up with a career in mental health. Now If I had all that information as I was taking all those classes, I would have gotten farther. Of course, if is a big word; Life just takes us with what have at the moment.
>
> So what can you say about this? The problem with college is that it is not a place for learning. Once you are on this merry go round, you can?t get off till it stops. There is no one to help you fill in the gaps. You are expected to know all this.
>
> I once had this thought that it would nice to be a Math doctor. To be able to diagnose what someone needs in order to understand. You have to understand at some basic level, not necessarily in any deep sense but just basic things. You just can?t continue to manipulate formulas and numbers without understanding.
>
> I say this, of course, from my personal experience and have not been a part of any studies. So I hesitate to generalize but I doubt that the importance of what I mention does not play a part in the overall understanding of Mathematics in a general sense. The contact with something real that makes sense to you. It's like we get thrown into this very abstract world much to soon in our development. So many students just get left behind and become totally confused.


I think we all have later-in-life epiphanies with subjects like mathematics, even when we excelled at it in school. There are so many topics and human nature being what it is, we don?t *get* all of the topics all of the time. Our understanding of some topics, or in your case, the whole subject:), is superficial. However, I don?t recall having a later-in-life epiphany like this about a topic I didn?t even take. If I hear you correctly, you attribute this epiphany to the physical activity of building the sculpture, but I would attribute it to your desire to build the sculpture in the first place. But the key issue is that I don?t think you would have had any epiphany had you not have done all of that operational work (that you call manipulating formulas) in school, even though you didn?t get it at the time.

The problem with curriculums that try to get students to get-it by using physical (nature) activities or any activity for that matter, like coloring pictures, is that the curriculums, in almost every instance, stop teaching mathematics. It is what we call math avoidance. The authors of these curriculums and the teachers that use them have a poor understanding of mathematics, its pedagogy and how all the pieces fit together. They incorrectly associate the teaching of operational knowledge (drills, exercises and problems) with student?s not getting the material. We don?t teach operational knowledge so that students get the material. We teach operational knowledge because that is the material to get. Regardless of whether you get it now, or 10 years later. Without it, there is nothing to get.

For example, those performances by the young musicians, in some cases are more performance than music (getting it). But which would you rather do? Go through 8 years of piano lessons and play without getting it, and maybe later get it, or later get interested in getting it and not have a chance of getting it because who has the time them to go through 8 years of piano lessons? Of course, I would rather be interested in getting it at the same time as you are taking the piano lessons, but my point is that you wouldn?t have had this epiphany if you hadn?t have at least successfully went though all of that operational stuff like manipulating formulas.

I am not against the use of activities to help students get it. That is what the 25% is for. I am against replacing the 75% with those activities because the 75% is the material we are trying to get. But many teachers don?t get this and they replace the material with activities and those students will never get it because they are not even being exposed to what it is that they are supposed to get in the first place.

Bob Hansen


Date Subject Author
6/27/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Anna Roys
6/27/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
6/28/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Ray
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
kirby urner
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
kirby urner
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Louis Talman
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Louis Talman
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
kirby urner
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Louis Talman
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Gary Tupper
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Louis Talman
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
kirby urner
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Anna Roys
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Anna Roys
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
kirby urner
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Louis Talman
7/6/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Louis Talman
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/8/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Richard Strausz
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Richard Strausz
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
7/14/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/15/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
7/22/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/22/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/23/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
7/24/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.