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Topic: Why do so many of us hate math?
Replies: 174   Last Post: Jul 24, 2014 2:21 AM

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Robert Hansen

Posts: 8,400
From: Florida
Registered: 6/22/09
Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Posted: Jul 5, 2014 9:46 AM
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On Jul 5, 2014, at 1:09 AM, Joe Niederberger <niederberger@comcast.net> wrote:

> Let me clarify: prove your implied point that I am wrong. I didn't use the terms technique and expression, I was talking about notes and rhythm, repeatedly. How disconnected can you be?

I was using expression to include things like Beethoven level rhythm. Should I have said play Beethoven rhythm instead?:) And the article you posted on Beethoven?s Sonata in C Minor Op. 10 No. 1, this one?

http://melaniespanswick.com/2013/10/30/rhythmic-precision-in-the-first-movement-of-beethovens-sonata-in-c-minor-op-10-no-1

This isn?t one 5th grader telling another 5th grader how to professionally play Beethoven. It?s music theory level rhythm, written for a student who is past enough of the drudgery to even appreciate it.

Here is Glenn Gould?s interpretation of Beethoven...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVrUaiL2gz8

How much of Gould?s attention would you say is on the mechanics and how much is on the music? I?d say close to 0% on the mechanics and 100% on the music. Actually, 150% on the music.:) It seems to me that you have to deal with mechanics before you can deal with the music, and that ratio changes as the student matures.


Btw, here is an interesting blurb in the wikipedia entry on rhythm regarding your earlier points about African music and staff notation?

"It is noteworthy that the debate about the appropriateness of staff notation for African music is a subject of particular interest to outsiders, not insiders. African scholars from Kyagambiddwa to Kongo have, for the most part, accepted the conventions?and limitations?of staff notation, and gone on to produce transcriptions in order to inform and make possible a higher level of discussion and debate.? Agawu (2003: 52)[28]"

I couldn?t find the whole book that is from, but here is a link to the google books preview?

http://books.google.com/books?id=PkppAwAAQBAJ&lpg=PR4&ots=Jht5KPKbTH&dq=Representing%20African%20Music%3A%20Postcolonial%20Notes%2C%20Queries%2C%20Positions.%20New%20York%3A%20Routledge.&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=Representing%20African%20Music:%20Postcolonial%20Notes,%20Queries,%20Positions.%20New%20York:%20Routledge.&f=false

Might be an interesting read in your study.


> Do you have a condition?

Yes. I think too deeply about things and this can be off putting to people who just want to casually entertain a thought. I don't know how to *casually* entertain a thought. My awareness is just too high. I also know that is why I didn?t fall into the lives my peers in the slum did. I was acutely aware of things and even without milieu and without education, I could still see that this just isn?t how things are. And I don?t think we were both as serious in our study of pedagogy these last 6 years. I don?t think anyone here was as serious as I was these last 6 years.:)

This whole discussion hinges on the notion that students are disinterested in subjects because the subjects aren?t taught interestingly enough. I don?t think you can teach the sense of smell, I don?t think you can teach the sense of logic and I don?t think you can teach interest. All you can do is truthfully expose the students to the subjects and find out what they are inherently interested in. The problem is that just listening to music isn?t *exposure*. You have to make a serious go at it in order for it to be actual exposure and the answer probably won?t come till adolescence. Actual exposure requires a lot of upfront development and yes, I think there are ways to do that development without scaring potentially interested students away, but I don?t think jumping to the hard stuff is one of those ways. More precisely, I don?t think jumping to the hard stuff is part of *development*, the 75%. It has a place in the 25% but it isn?t development, shouldn?t be framed as develo!
pment and the teacher shouldn?t get confused and think it is development. There is a line between having informal discussions relating to advanced topics, and pretending to actually teach them. This is a more complicated than you might imagine. I?ve gotten a lot better at it by using my 75%/25% rule. I think about what I am doing and put it in the right context (75% or 25%) first. Why do we need to do this? Because we know the subject so damn well that a 25% activity will make so much (formal) sense to us that we unwittingly think it is making that much (formal) sense to the class. We forget that we were in 25% mode and start thinking we are in 75% mode. Some teachers unfortunately don?t even know the difference between the two modes and before giving them lessons on how to insure they are in the right mode we need to give them lessons on what the two modes are in the first place.

Just food for thought.

Bob Hansen


Date Subject Author
6/27/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Anna Roys
6/27/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
6/28/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
6/29/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Ray
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
kirby urner
7/4/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/4/14
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kirby urner
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
israeliteknight
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
6/30/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/1/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Louis Talman
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
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Louis Talman
7/3/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
kirby urner
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Wayne Bishop
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
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Louis Talman
7/2/14
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Gary Tupper
7/2/14
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Louis Talman
7/2/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
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GS Chandy
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/2/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
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Robert Hansen
7/4/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/3/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/3/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
kirby urner
7/3/14
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Robert Hansen
7/3/14
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Anna Roys
7/3/14
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Anna Roys
7/3/14
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Robert Hansen
7/4/14
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Robert Hansen
7/4/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
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kirby urner
7/6/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/7/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/4/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
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Robert Hansen
7/4/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/4/14
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Robert Hansen
7/5/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/5/14
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Robert Hansen
7/5/14
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GS Chandy
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/5/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/5/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/5/14
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GS Chandy
7/5/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
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Robert Hansen
7/6/14
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Robert Hansen
7/5/14
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GS Chandy
7/6/14
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Robert Hansen
7/6/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/6/14
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Louis Talman
7/6/14
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Robert Hansen
7/7/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/7/14
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GS Chandy
7/7/14
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GS Chandy
7/7/14
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Robert Hansen
7/7/14
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GS Chandy
7/7/14
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GS Chandy
7/7/14
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Robert Hansen
7/7/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/8/14
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Robert Hansen
7/8/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/7/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/7/14
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Robert Hansen
7/8/14
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GS Chandy
7/7/14
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GS Chandy
7/8/14
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GS Chandy
7/9/14
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Robert Hansen
7/7/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/8/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/8/14
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Louis Talman
7/9/14
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Robert Hansen
7/8/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/8/14
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GS Chandy
7/8/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/8/14
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GS Chandy
7/8/14
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Wayne Bishop
7/8/14
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GS Chandy
7/9/14
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GS Chandy
7/9/14
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israeliteknight
7/9/14
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GS Chandy
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Joe Niederberger
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/9/14
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israeliteknight
7/9/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/9/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/10/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
Robert Hansen
7/9/14
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Joe Niederberger
7/10/14
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israeliteknight
7/10/14
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GS Chandy
7/10/14
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Richard Strausz
7/10/14
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israeliteknight
7/10/14
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GS Chandy
7/10/14
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GS Chandy
7/10/14
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Richard Strausz
7/10/14
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israeliteknight
7/14/14
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GS Chandy
7/15/14
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israeliteknight
7/22/14
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GS Chandy
7/22/14
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GS Chandy
7/23/14
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israeliteknight
7/24/14
Read Re: Why do so many of us hate math?
GS Chandy

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