Date: Oct 11, 2012 6:43 PM
Author: Robert Hansen
Subject: Re: US teachers are overworked and underpaid

Let's start with elementary school, how many hours do teachers teach in Finland and how does it work? Here they teach 4-5 hours, the remainder of the 6.5 hours is lunch, recess, and an activity. I think this is a very reasonable approach to if we are to discuss how this might be done here.

Bob Hansen

On Oct 11, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Paul Tanner <upprho@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Robert Hansen <bob@rsccore.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Paul Tanner <upprho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>

>>> If I teach 6 hours per day and have 20 students in each one hour
>> class, then I have 120 total students to deal with. If I teach 3 hours
>> per day and have 20 students in each one hour class, then I have 60
>> total students to deal with. The teacher-pupil ratio is the same, but

>>> one teacher has double the teaching load of the other.
>>
>>
>> So do the kids go to school only 3 hours a day? I guess we are not talking
>> elementary school, we are talking high school? So in elementary school the
>> teachers teach the same as us but in high school they only teach 3 hours? So
>> do teachers share the classrooms? Or do half the classrooms sit empty half
>> the day and the other half the other half of the day? Is this the vocational
>> schools as well, or just the high schools? I guess it is possible since the
>> high schools have screening in place. Once you remove the sports and the
>> remedial classes, what's left? Do you have a link to some actual high school
>> schedules that exhibit this? It seems like college hours.

>
> ?
>
> Please read what I actually wrote in this thread before you reply
> further, including most especially ALL of what I cited and linked to.
> It gives you the information for high school, middle school, and
> elementary school, and for overall averages. I already said that this
> is not about the number of hours that a student spends per year or per
> week while school is in session in front of a teacher, but it is about
> the number of hours that a teacher per year and or per week while
> school is in session spends in front of a class.
>
> Again: Please do the math based on what I cited.
>
> To reply to this above of yours specifically, for each week school is
> in session, using rounded off numbers that are close to the actual
> numbers so as to show what is going on most clearly:
>
> For these three top-performing countries in question Korea, Finland,
> and Japan, and for US community college teachers, we have something
> like this: Two teachers teaching a total of 120 students means 60
> students per teacher - 2 teachers each teaching 3 hours per day, 15
> hours per week. The students each spend 6 hours per day in front of a
> teacher. The student/teacher ratio PER CLASS is 20/1.
>
> Compare that to what we see in the US at k12, where we have something
> like this: One teacher teaching a total of 120 students means 120
> students per teacher - 1 teacher teaching 6 hours per day, 30 hours
> per week. The students each spend 6 hours per day in front of a
> teacher. The student/teacher ratio PER CLASS is 20/1.
>
> Why so many people keep confusing the student/teacher ratio *per
> class* and the student/teacher ratio *in terms of total number of
> students in all classes put together that a single teacher has to deal
> with* is beyond me.
>
> I reiterate everything I said in my last post in this thread:
>
> http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7904464