Date: Oct 11, 2012 6:43 PM Author: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: US teachers are overworked and underpaid Let's start with elementary school, how many hours do teachers teach in Finland and how does it work? Here they teach 4-5 hours, the remainder of the 6.5 hours is lunch, recess, and an activity. I think this is a very reasonable approach to if we are to discuss how this might be done here.

Bob Hansen

On Oct 11, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Paul Tanner <upprho@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Robert Hansen <bob@rsccore.com> wrote:

>>

>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Paul Tanner <upprho@gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>>> If I teach 6 hours per day and have 20 students in each one hour

>> class, then I have 120 total students to deal with. If I teach 3 hours

>> per day and have 20 students in each one hour class, then I have 60

>> total students to deal with. The teacher-pupil ratio is the same, but

>>> one teacher has double the teaching load of the other.

>>

>>

>> So do the kids go to school only 3 hours a day? I guess we are not talking

>> elementary school, we are talking high school? So in elementary school the

>> teachers teach the same as us but in high school they only teach 3 hours? So

>> do teachers share the classrooms? Or do half the classrooms sit empty half

>> the day and the other half the other half of the day? Is this the vocational

>> schools as well, or just the high schools? I guess it is possible since the

>> high schools have screening in place. Once you remove the sports and the

>> remedial classes, what's left? Do you have a link to some actual high school

>> schedules that exhibit this? It seems like college hours.

>

> ?

>

> Please read what I actually wrote in this thread before you reply

> further, including most especially ALL of what I cited and linked to.

> It gives you the information for high school, middle school, and

> elementary school, and for overall averages. I already said that this

> is not about the number of hours that a student spends per year or per

> week while school is in session in front of a teacher, but it is about

> the number of hours that a teacher per year and or per week while

> school is in session spends in front of a class.

>

> Again: Please do the math based on what I cited.

>

> To reply to this above of yours specifically, for each week school is

> in session, using rounded off numbers that are close to the actual

> numbers so as to show what is going on most clearly:

>

> For these three top-performing countries in question Korea, Finland,

> and Japan, and for US community college teachers, we have something

> like this: Two teachers teaching a total of 120 students means 60

> students per teacher - 2 teachers each teaching 3 hours per day, 15

> hours per week. The students each spend 6 hours per day in front of a

> teacher. The student/teacher ratio PER CLASS is 20/1.

>

> Compare that to what we see in the US at k12, where we have something

> like this: One teacher teaching a total of 120 students means 120

> students per teacher - 1 teacher teaching 6 hours per day, 30 hours

> per week. The students each spend 6 hours per day in front of a

> teacher. The student/teacher ratio PER CLASS is 20/1.

>

> Why so many people keep confusing the student/teacher ratio *per

> class* and the student/teacher ratio *in terms of total number of

> students in all classes put together that a single teacher has to deal

> with* is beyond me.

>

> I reiterate everything I said in my last post in this thread:

>

> http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7904464