Date: Nov 8, 2012 4:00 PM
Author: kirby urner
Subject: Re: Obama's win - good or bad for the US/the world?

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Paul Tanner <> wrote:

> But you're putting forth nothing useful. That is, in spite of your
> attempts to define away the problem, you still have to answer the same
> damn questions that everyone else has to answer, because you still
> have to address a basic problem, which is not enough income to offset
> the outgo enough to get the total debt to go down as a percentage of
> total output. And rather than address these questions, you act as if
> there is something wrong in addressing these questions.

That's quite a sweeping judgement, whereas I'd say I'm putting forth
much that is useful, call me biased.

And I have addressed the issue of a negentropic biosphere powered by
joules from its star, a starting point in GST.

We can argue about "negentropic" especially in a "bombs away" economy,
but I'm saying "in principle" i.e. humans are not lacking for energy
income, spoiled rotten might be closer to the problem.

> Your writing comes across like some hippie who, when confronted with
> the fact that he still needs money to buy toilet paper (metaphor) -
> assuming he wants to use toilet paper and not his hands (metaphor),
> tries to deny that the basic facts of life in terms of money apply,
> that it's bad to think about money and all that.

Did you read 'How the Hippies Saved Physics' yet or doth thee remain a
cultural illiterate (by choice)?

The "toilet paper" gibe seemed infantile which is why I didn't respond.

We can talk about the history of currency as metal bracelets
representing cows you'd make good on (if in debt through said
redeemable coupons) but that's a long story. Lets note that most of
nature doesn't use money and gets along fine without it, and those
non-monetized ecologies (sans money) far from being unsophisticated,
are quite capable of not only modeling reality, but being reality.

Safe to say, in the village market place, having tokens with which to
exchange goodies, beats lugging bags all over the place (really slows
down the negotiations -- you forget why you even came). Money is
definitely a convenience and I'm not against using it sometimes, duh.