Date: Dec 3, 2012 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Stephen Fry does something no human has ever done before

On Dec 1, 2:19 pm, "Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway"
<> wrote:
> "Mahipal"  wrote in message


> > God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The
> > courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the
> > difference. -- Reinhold Niebuhr

> Always me changes... me always changes... me changes all ways... meal
> ways changes... word games. Given 17 letters, two blanks included in
> this specific count, then there are a mere 17! permutations. Small
> number that, compared to the 52! of a deck of unbiased deck of cards.
> Perhaps here's a good time to ask how much does a Anagram weigh?
> ==========================================================
> The Children's Encyclopedia, edited by Arthur Mee, circa 1920:
> His homeward way the weary ploughman plods.
> The ploughman, weary, plods his way homeward.
> Homeward plods his way the weary ploughman.
> The weary ploughman...
> etc...
> Colossal Cave Adventure game, late 70's
> You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all different.
> Go North ( or Up or Down or East or South or West )
> You are in a twisty maze of little passages, all different.
> You are in a maze of little twisty passages, all different.
> You are in a little maze of twisty passages, all different.
> etc...
> You'll need to map it to find the way out and the way
> through.
> Only 6 locations but the connections drive you insane
> as you return to where you were.
> Still the best text only computer game.

> > Well, fuck any gods, but I'll take the rest of that prayer. If there were
> > any god I'd kick the impotent bastard (or vicious cunt)  in the balls for
> > what he did to my family.

> Keith's father was, perhaps still is, a preacher or a priest. I have
> not kept in touch. Gods are not, fwiw, the invention of mere and or
> sole Westerners. In Greek Mythology and Hinduism, there are as many
> gods as there are virtues and vices. Numerically, god is 1. Besides...
> god's got to be the ultimate atheist because who the hell is s/he
> going to believe in?! Still I am comfortable with Pascal's Wager. All
> the while worshipping at the chalice half full of scotch.
> =================================================
> Paying flood insurance to Poseidon while living at the top of the hill
> is a very small premium but a premium nevertheless.  Better to pay
> Hephaestus, you may be living on a volcano. No worship without
> passing the plate.
> Pascal's Wager is founded on the postulate of ONE god, rather like
> Einstein's postulate of ONE speed of light. Both are actually hypotheses.

All ideas are conserved. There are ideas of a variable speed of light,
especially during the early seconds of the unquestionable fact, as I
listen to the tone of the all knowing narrator on shows like How The
Universe Works, of the Big Bang Theory. These variable c ideas compete
with the cosmic inflation hypothesis. Narrator knows best.

> If you play the game then you agree to the rules but there are meta-rules to
> what rules are permitted.
> On usenet one upsets the chessboard, scattering the men, or cheats by going
> out of turn or making an illegal move, or moving one's opponents piece for
> him, and then claims victory.

Very few posters on Usenet, these days, willingly reveal by
voluntarily sharing their education, profession, or publications. Yet
they are especially the first to accuse others of never having
studied. Of not having been properly indoctrinated. Accusers should
always indicate they have qualifications to mercilessly, daily, and as
if they are obligated to do so, required by Big Brother
to... mindlessly criticise and denigrate others. Reasoning with
savages, I know I should not even bother.

> The snip is the best way to upset the board, altering your
> opponent's text is moving his piece for him. What's wrong with an
> honest stalemate or defeat? One can't learn from one's mistakes
> unless they are admitted to.

There's rarely ever an honest snip. First, modern bits are abundantly
available. For example, tens of billions tweets per day. Fortunately
some rare readers will always want to read the original content for
themselves, than put their trust in some manipulating snipping idiots.

One reason I prefer Usenet, is that unlike twitter and facebook, I
don't get constant stalking emails reminding me how long it's been
since I visited their wonderful websites. It's so sweet to be missed.

> > Enough of that. Fuck the vicious psychopathic faggot Dork Van de moortel
> > too, and I've said my piece. I accept what  I can't change.

> > > Your posting this quote earlier today was is very inspiring:
> > > "And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is
> > > unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever
> > > you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations,
> > > in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all
> > > its shams, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful
> > > world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy." -- Max Ehrmann

> > [trim]
> > > > <'sStar.GIF>
> > > > Two beams are brighter than one if they arrive together.  It was
> > > > Henry Wilson who first noted that delta T differed from delta t
> > > > to yield an apparent time dilation and compression.  So... no
> > > > cataclysm. No Einstein relativity nonsense either.

> > > Interesting graph where DT/dt < 0 in certain regions. Can you please
> > > put values on the parsecs and the time axes, if needed.

> > > =====================================================
> > > Nope. Newton's three laws don't have values, they are a principle.
> > > The time could be microseconds or millennia, the distance can be
> > > millimetres or Mega-light-years. It is likely but by no means certain
> > > that V 1493 Aql will repeat its phenomenon every 200 years, about
> > > the same period as Pluto orbits the Sun. We didn't have enough
> > > observers or telescopes 200 years ago to have seen it before.
> > > Much closer to home is Algol, that has a period of 70 hours.

> >
> > If V1493Aql is going to display this brightness curve periodically,
> > then you should compute this curve for Algol and include it on your
> > site.
> > =====================================================
> > A triangle has three sides. If the ratio of the sides is the same then any
> > two triangles with that ratio have the same shape and are called
> > "similar".
> > It doesn't matter whether the sides are 3 miles, 4 miles and 5 miles or 3
> > cm, 4 cm and 5 cm,  they have the same shape, the same right angle.

> No need to patronize.
> =============================
> My apologies, I was building up to Androcles' Triangle.

I should've written, no need to be _that_ helpful. Yet I appreciate
your good will to teach well.

> Your analogy is however, good. I accept Euclid,
> Riemannian, and Nikolai Lobachevsky as great Geometricians. Spherical
> geometry, ftr, seems to have originated with Al-Jayy?n? in the Middle
> East. No wonder modern architecture in UAE is simply astonishing.
> ==========================================
> I seem to have invited a digression into piling up real bricks rather than
> the architecture of a luminosity curve. One side of Androcles' Triangle
> has dimension time. I'll try to respect your knowledge of mathematics
> while remaining sceptical of the meaning of m (for magnitude) in
> JD is Julian Date, btw.

O, my confusion, that's simple to explain. I just did not pay serious
attention to the link address initially. Should have, but I did not. I
saw the pretty graph a week prior, then later read your reference of
time contracting and expanding, a very neat idea that, and just jumped
to conclude m was a time axis too and wrote minutes rather than, say,
microseconds. I know better now and still curious regards the idea.

> > Similar light curves have the same ratio of distance, period and orbital
> > attitude. If I knew the distance and the orbital attitude I could compute
> > the period, but I
> > don't.
> > Henrietta Swan Leavitt worked with approximately similar light curves that
> > had approximately similar periods. From that she obtained approximate
> > distances. Cepheids are now thought of as "standard candles" to find
> > approximate distances.

> > This phenomena must be independent of any supernova activity.
> > ====================================================
> > Recurrent novae are not supernovae. The Crab really is an exploding star,
> > a supernova.

> Not sure how I got thinking supernova in this thread. Anyway, your
> proposition is clearly a basic speed of light plus or minus the source
> speed issue. Let's just focus on the principle from now on. You do
> realize if I pursued such thoughts in any Liberal Arts Academia, that
> I likely wouldn't get a passing enough grade to return for the next
> semester? Might even get me banned from some websites of late.
> ======================================================
> Do you care?

That's like... Is the cat in the box both dead and alive?

> If so just tell them Einstein said
> "But the ray moves relatively to the initial point of k, when measured in
> the stationary system, with the velocity c-v, so that t = x'/(c-v) "
> <>
> Who am I (or you) to challenge the great Ayatollah Saint Einstein?

Ayatollah Relativist Saint Einstein (ARSE)? No, I know I care more
about the Universe than anyone who isn't actually Planck as in
E=hf. Also, any website that would ban people from asking certain
questions of science, is really not worth the being a member at. Same
for any Academia that refuses to be open minded about rational
questions or is actual science history challenged. Curriculum based
contents, in general, also get repetitive tiring. Yawn.

OTOH, I do care. When in 1988 or so, as a young impressionable
motivated graduate student, I sat in Charles Misner's office, him too
busy too preoccupied and not really contemplating my one page of
writing, all he said or asked was, "How can poetry be wrong?!'' after
I asked him "Is this wrong?'' So, I have my books and my own poetry
to protect me. I care, but I do not worry.

> >
> > It is my opinion that SN 1987A is a collision of two stars.
> >

> > I say this because they have very different spatial distributions of
> > debris. A sudden brightening of light can have many causes.

> > > Why do you conclude that this is a elliptical orbit binary system?
> > > Isn't this the kind of detail Astronomers determine before the Farmers
> > > keep insisting the rocks really fell out of the sky -- all the while
> > > getting mocked by the Astronomers?
> > > =======================================================
> > > A star with a planet is not called a binary system and I didn't.
> > > However, all planets have elliptical orbits. The Moon has an elliptical
> > > orbit. The Earth has an elliptical orbit about the barycentre it shares
> > > with the Moon. That barycentre is a 1000 miles beneath our feet.
> > > If the mathematics of elliptical orbits were not known no probe would
> > > ever reach Mars.

> > Ok, a supernova star with a planet, rather than a binary stellar
> > system. Actually my knowledge of planetary orbital dynamics is quite
> > good. Was the V1493Aql planet's orbit already known, pre the double
> > peaked brightness curve? Or, did you use the twice peaked light curve
> > to estimate the planet's orbit?
> > ====================================================
> > Again, a star with a planet, not a supernova with a planet.
> > No planetary orbits are known, and certainly not for distant stars.
> > V 1493 Aql has a magnitude of 16, which is incredibly faint. Any
> > magnitude beyond about 6 is not visible to the naked eye.
> > A telescope is essential.

> I do and did presume all V 1493 Aql measurements are made by
> professional astronomical telescopes and Astronomers. Forgive me Lord
> if I have sinned.
> ============================================
> You are forgiven, my son. Your sin is your presumption, a crime against
> mathematics where all must be proven from the accepted axioms.
> For your penance say three Hail De Morgans.
> The naked eye sky visibility is nil to foggy from
> where I gaze, so rarely, if ever, up. My eyes are no competetion to
> the all encompassing spectrum spanning telescopes deployed the Earth
> over. Our surveillance spans the Universe, not just my NIMBY windows.
> ======================================================
> We must see with the mind, for the speed of light and great distance
> deceives the eye.

"Thinking is the best to travel'' sang The Moody Blues.

> > [trim]
> > > > Am familiar with this fable.
> > > > ================================================
> > > > The world was flooded when the Northern Ice Cap melted, so Noah built
> > > > a
> > > > farm on a boat to save the animals. Such is the nature of fables.
> > > > Are you familiar with this 2100 year old technology?
> > > >
> > > > The extremely poor mathematics of the Holy Roman Empire, still extant
> > > > throughout the world and especially so in the USA, has lost us much
> > > > from
> > > > the Greeks, the Persians, the Indians, the Arabs.

> > > That's a fascinating mechanical device, amazing the Antikythera is
> > > 2100 years old. Not that age matters much. But wow! I recall I first
> > > saw it demonstrated, after replication, on a great TV series names
> > > "What The Ancients Knew" and wondering how come so few shows this
> > > amazingly good and insightful?!

> > > The resultant extremely poor mathematics is a simple consequence of
> > > the reality that a Plagiarist is never -- along any direction along
> > > the time axis -- as thoughtful, insightful, inspired, and talented as
> > > the Original Thinker.
> > > ==================================================
> > > You miss my very simple point.
> > > It is very difficult to teach an adult, let alone a child, that
> > > MXXIV divided by DXII equals II, 1024/512 = 2 is much easier.
> > > One before five is IV, one before ten is IX, not VIIII. Order is
> > > is important, IV is four and VI is six. What then is IVX?
> > > Four before ten perhaps?

> > I thought you meant the Romans imitated from the Greeks without fully
> > grasping the mathematics.

> > Am very familiar with the limitations of Roman Numerals. Yet, there
> > had to be some science type Romans wondering, how big a tax an
> > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...MMMMM might represent. Of course, it seems in
> > retrospect, he wouldn't have tried multiplying it with 0.

> > ==============================================
> > In my opinion the loss was more a result of conquest than failing to grasp
> > the mathematics. A device such as the Antikythera mechanism, sunk by
> > a Roman trireme, why would a Greek give away such a wonderful device to an
> > enemy who wasn't listening anyway?
> > Navigation by the stars and planets, that's a trade secret and a
> > commercial
> > advantage. One does not teach his enemy mathematics when his town has been
> > raped and pillaged, even assuming he's still alive to do so.

> When the Library of Alexandria in Egypt was demolished and burned,
> accidentally or otherwise in 48BC, thanks to Julius Caesar, it is very
> Very VERY likely the competent Teachers died en masse too. So, not
> only did the Teachers not willingly give away the knowledge trade
> secrets, they weren't likely deemed relevant enough even to be asked
> anythink before being killed. Savages first. Ho hum.
> ========================================
> Quite so, and it has only been 80 generations (at four generations per
> century) since the Roman Senate savages whelped Hillary Cleopatra Clinton,
> Queen of the Potomac.
> As one ages how one realises what a short time that is and how little the
> savages have changed.

Yes, that's a sad realization but one has to accept it as truth.

> > > Mathematics means learning and applying simple and consistent
> > > rules and the rules of Roman arithmetic are far from simple.
> > > There were no Roman mathematicians, they were handicapped
> > > from birth by bad notation. They has no symbol for zero, that was
> > > an Indian idea and India was beyond the reach of the Roman Empire.
> > > Greece wasn't, and Greek mathematics died out as a result. Only
> > > Greek geometry survived.
> > > Using letters for actual numbers was a BIG mistake, it blocks out
> > > algebra where x can be any value, not just ten.

> > Interesting assessment.
> > [trim]
> > > > =============================================
> > > > Heck, my Jazzy is faster than walking, all I want is for all pubs not
> > > > to
> > > > have steps as it limits my choice.
> > > >
> > > > Trouble is some of them are 900 years old.
> > > >

> > > In the USA we have nothing old, so I love traveling to Europe and
> > > India. What could be more charming than having a scotch at a 900 years
> > > old pub?!

> > > ========================================================
> > > Indians of the American variety had a Palaeolithic culture, stone tools
> > > and weapons but no megaliths. Europeans had megaliths 3000 years ago
> > > and are still savages today.

> > Thanks for the warning, I shall beware the savages in Europe.
> > =====================================================
> > They surround you in Maryland. Look at that face on a \$20 bill. He killed
> > Indians.
> > <>
> > It's a European face, glorified on paper. Beware the savages in America.

> No need to scare me, a true non-native Indian I, any further for I am
> already maxed out on the fear meters. Do check out these -- fairly
> recent historical evidence confirming existence of brains being
> washed, it's good to be clean -- telling lyrics:
> "They took away our native tongue
> And taught their English to our young"
> ================================================
> My father was Welsh (Cymru), my mother English. The Cymru settled in Britain
> as the ice receded 11,000 years ago.
> Rome was the first invader (that we know of) who pushed the natives back
> into the mountains followed by Northern Europeans that became the English
> and did the same.  The English are a mix of Romans, Vikings, Germans from
> Saxony, French, you name it,  a melting pot as much as the Americans. The
> Roman/English/American Empire is over, the Chinese and Indian Empires just
> beginning.

The Earth, with its plate tectonics, was lucky to have appropriately
placed Mount Everest in order to historically prevent too many war
like collisions between China and India. Humans are feigning to be a
bit wiser now, and trying hard to cohabitate on this Island in a sea
of unreachable galaxies. Or is that hardly trying?

> > [trim]
> > > Nobody took and held on to your, or mine, passport. Yet the act
> > > happens daily to other less fortunate working class people in the
> > > international realm.
> > > =================================================
> > > But legally. Uncle Sam takes your taxes and hold on to it, it should be
> > > illegal for anyone to steal your money. Yet the act happens daily to
> > > fortunate business class people in the national realm.
> > > Hey, let's make taxes voluntary like pledges to PBS. Those that want
> > > an army to defend everyone should pay for it, those that don't shouldn't
> > > listen to classical music on the radio. I'm all for this what's legal
> > > what's illegal argument, we can pay lawyers instead of taxes and if
> > > that doesn't work the way I want it to, shoot each other.

> > Let's presume legally, for the sake of faking having faith in fellow
> > humans.
> > ============================
> > As long as you are only faking I'll go along with it. The devil has an
> > advocate.

> You are such a joy to interact with Lord John. Salute!
> ==============================================
> When one teaches, two learn. The joy is reciprocated. Salute!
> [trim]
> =============================================================

> > > Two ways to defeat that. One is get a rowing boat, sneak out and in
> > > again at night, no passport needed. Illegal immigrants try to get into
> > > Britain on the cross channel ferry to Dover, what they should do is go
> > > through Ireland or Wales or Scotland, not England.
> > > It may take more than 5 hours for the crossing.
> > > The other is get filthy rich and go by your own private plane. Money
> > > talks
> > > and bullshit walks.

> > Though the rowing would be good exercise for my health, I will not try
> > that route. A yacht, with full stocked bar, might work. I am working
> > on making a lot of that filthy rich kind of money. Even then, my
> > passport is going to be mandatory papers required for traveling. It's
> > also very likely the rich are hassled plenty and foremost by Customs.
> > They need to either confiscate that or tax that. The poor have
> > nothing, hence carry nothing, and use the fast green lane through
> > Customs.
> > =====================================================
> > Quite so, the poor dangle the expensive camera they purchased abroad and
> > paid no duty on, hidden in plain sight as they dutifully pay up a few
> > coins
> > (shrapnel)  on the bottle of wine they declared. Of course, *I* would
> > never
> > do such a thing, God save the Queen from rogues. I ALWAYS declare
> > something
> > and pay up. The Customs and Excise people look at me like I'm an idiot but
> > they never hassle, Gawd bless 'em. Go through the slow red lane, fool,
> > it's
> > faster and friendlier if you pay SOMETHING and the jerk there is always a
> > trainee not trusted to spot the green lane travellers trying to sneak in
> > without paying.

> Soon, to find a workaround for the trainees or the all too competent
> Customs' crooks, the green lane will likely go the dodo bird away
> entirely and they'll automatically scan plus x-ray all contents within
> suitcases. With the old all pervasive, ever present, all things are
> property of the State principle, justification. Trust not, verify all.
> Big Brother is busy advancing perfecting stalking. Pretty confident
> that when women get breast implants, to enhance their entrapment
> capabilities, the left and right ones have unique RFID transmitters
> constantly beckoning.
> ======================================
> Interesting. You mean tattoos labeling them "Mild Ale" and "Bitter"
> won't be appealing?

I am not at all fond of tattoos, only temporary henna ones might be
acceptable by me. What they dispense is refillable changeable? Very
interesting. Did not know such technology had progressed along those
lines. Perhaps it's real time I did look for a girl friend once again.

> > Thanks hanson for the summary and advice. Just amazing you followed
> > the details, and got the attributions right.
> > =====================================
> > Cha-cha-hanson is lurking, huh?  He's pure as the driven snow and
> > dances upon it when he's not licking Kinky Wobbly's aetherial arse.

> Sir Guru Cha-cha-hanson knows his stuff and is both kind and wise
> beyond measure. Aside, phonetically, Cha-Cha means father's younger
> brother in most all of India. Ok, at least northern parts of it.
> ====================================================
> The cha cha cha is a Cuban dance, he earned his name by dancing and
> claiming to be pure and pristine while bonking the clergyman's wife on
> the church altar. I currently have him plonked, he's too repetitive and it
> gets contagious. Not quite my cup of cha.

Hanson has his own reasons for being repetitive when needed. Surely he
always reposts when snipped, usually by nameless unidentifiable
aliased posters. Ancient Usenet types think they still effect what
readers downstream will have access to. Were hanson on twitter or
facebook or simultaneously on both, what a amazing incomphrensible
difficult feat that, I just shudder at the thought of the
ramifications of that both accomplishment, he would be required to
repeat about four times a sidereal day given the ADD audience there is
stateless and historyless. Only the real time thought counts. It's
like someone would have to rediscover the Pythagorean Theorem every
three hours or so.

Usenet posts repeat cycle seems to be two weeks to about a month.

> > -- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
> > Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway


I may be having less time to interact here on Usenet, I have to get my
life back on track. Going through a routine background check even as I
do not real time tweet. I do have an account, that's got to look