Date: Dec 23, 2012 9:19 PM
Author: GS Chandy
Subject: Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?

Gary Tupper posted Dec 23, 2012 10:13 PM:
> Note that there exist "company unions" that are
> formed with the support
> of management to
> preclude worker membership in legitimate independent
> unions. Often attractive to fundamentalist groups
> who do not support any political action activities.
> They tend to piggy
> back on their organized colleagues.
> Gary Tupper
> On 12/22/2012 9:33 PM, Paul Tanner wrote:

> > On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Robert Hansen
> <> wrote:
> >> On Dec 22, 2012, at 4:15 PM, Paul Tanner
> <> wrote:
> >>
> >> It is one of the characteristics of a free and
> >> democratic nation that
> >> is have free and independent labor unions."
> >>
> >>
> >> And we did have free and independent labor unions.
> >>
> >> Bob Hansen

> > And we still do: All labor unions in the US -
> > including labor unions representing government
> > employees - are still free and independent in

Notwithstanding all the 'dinosaur brains' (in the USA; in India; elsewhere in the world) who would like to do away entirely with labour unions, I believe they are here to stay: that's one historical development that is behind us for all time.

I believe that many labour unions (in India [to my certain knowledge]; in the USA; elsewhere in the world) are not functioning effectively in support of their ostensible purposes.

Thus, the underlying issue seems to be: "How to ensure that unions are kept free and independent - AND that they would function effectively"? (if I'm reading Gary Tupper's response to Paul Tanner correctly).

Well, why don't the stakeholders in the unions actually get down to brass tacks and work on precisely that as a Mission (instead of beating perpetually round and round the mulberrry bush as we see happening most often)?

I'm certain that, if stakeholders were to effectively discuss issues and genuinely work to bring their 'potential wisdom' to bear on those issues, they are indeed capable of resolving most of them much more satisfactorily than is done in most cases.

When I say "stakeholders" I mean even the 'dinosaur brains' who claim that labour unions are the fount of all evil in this world or that they are the infamous 'Education Mafia' or whatever.

During the discussion of issues of concern, stakeholders can - and should - enable even those to 'have their say' who wish to do things like "PUT THE EDUCATION MAFIA IN JAIL!" and "BLOW UP THE SCHOOLS OF EDUCATION!" Today, they will not be able to 'have their do' (in most cases).

For instance, labour unions are ineluctably part of the societal structure in practically all countries today. The days are long gone when 'owners' could victimize the unions (though they are still continuing to victimize the workers in many cases in India today). That can now change quite speedily. Check out the attachments to my post at, for information on practical tools that can help effective resolution of such issues.


Message was edited by: GS Chandy