Date: Jan 13, 2013 9:26 PM
Author: Wayne Bishop
Subject: Re: Seattle Ballard High School teachers have followed suit:<br>  No MAP test!

That may be but the evaluation of teachers at present is 
meaningless. Most expect, and get, superior ratings; the Lake
Wobegon situation. And informing these assessors several times a
year with tests that measure improvement is critical.


At 09:24 PM 1/12/2013, Robert Hansen wrote:
>Um, yeah, that teacher accountability thing is there, it is always
>going to be there, but can't we just put that aside for the moment?
>Nn top of all of the other testing, this is too much bloody testing.
>Even all that other testing is too much bloody testing. While you
>talk about "3 tests" during the year, the net result is not just "3
>tests" during the year. Not only do these tests affect the focus of
>teacher (teaching to the test) there are also many "pretests" that
>spring up. For example, result of just one (NCLB) test a year is
>that the students are tested weekly, in reading, not quite as often
>in math, but quite often.
>People misunderstand my support for standardized testing. We need
>authentic measures that are normed to what professional society
>expects of successful students in these subjects and not for the
>purpose of evaluating teachers. For the purpose of being HONEST to
>the students. As far as evaluating schools or teachers, my only use
>of those standardized tests is to determine if the schools or
>teachers are LYING to their students and passing them on to the next
>class when they are not ready.
>As far as evaluating teachers, that has to be done by the principle,
>the administrators, and people in the context the teachers are in.
>The rest of the world does it that way and they share their ideas of
>doing it. That process, while not perfect, seems to work pretty damn
>well. And if teachers don't like that process because it is not
>perfect then too bad. It sure beats the heck out of the choices
>talked about lately, including their own choices.
>Bob Hansen
>On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:34 PM, Wayne Bishop <> wrote:

> > I don't know anything about the validity or reliability of the
> test but my guess is that real objection to the test (2 hours, 3
> times during the year) has more to do with "tied to merit pay" than
> anything else.

> >
> > Wayne
> >
> > At 08:25 AM 1/12/2013, Robert Hansen wrote:
> >

> >> On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:00 AM, Michael Paul Goldenberg
> <> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Sounds like they don't like the MAP test. Understandable since

> this is yet another test on top of all the state mandated testing.
> >>
> >> I support them.
> >>
> >> Bob Hansen