```Date: Feb 5, 2013 3:33 AM
Author: JT
Subject: Re: Which naturals better?

On 5 Feb, 09:04, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:> In article> <35d3dbda-612a-4ce8-ba5d-935295170...@h11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,>>>>>>>>>>  JT <jonas.thornv...@gmail.com> wrote:> > On 4 Feb, 11:02, Frederick Williams <freddywilli...@btinternet.com>> > wrote:> > > JT wrote:>> > > > Building new natural numbers without zero using NyaN, in any base,> > > > [...]>> > > You seem to confuse numbers and digits.  Both of these are true:> > > There is a number zero.> > > Numbers can be symbolized without the digit zero.>> > > --> > > When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by> > > this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.> > > Jonathan Swift: Thoughts on Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting>> > No there is no zero in my list of naturals, in my list is each natural> > number a discrete ***items***, ***entity*** with a magnitude.>> Zero is a perfectly good "magnitude", and in ever more set theories,> zero is a perfectly good natural number.>> So how can you have an arithmetic of natural numbers which does not> allow a numeral representing the first of them??> --You do not listen to what i say each natural (not zero) is an entitywith a range if they had no range you could not divide and makefractions not partition. You can not partition zero it do not have arange of a natural you can not count zero into the set. Naturalnumbers is just sets of arranging an amount of single naturals, theyall have the same magnitude when you say 7 it is an identity for set(1,1,1,1,1,1,1) now you can say that is (7) but the seven havemembers. Each natural identity like 7 is a set of single=1 naturalswith magnitude and zero do not belong to that set.If you empty the set of (7) by picking out a single item there is noobject zero. And when you count in a single natural first naturalentity is 1 second 2.There is a language gap here for me a natural is a single 1 and 7seven is a set of seven members with single ones. So what would likeme to call the one that make up your naturals. I guess in math 7 is anatural, to me it is an identity used for (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) this set iscountable. The set of (7) is based on the assumption of(1,1,1,1,1,1,1) i am not sure what mathematicians mean by an identity,but it seem to me like 7 incorporates the hidden assumption of1+1+1+1+1+1+1 and thus all natural numbers except for 1 is identities.
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