Date: Feb 5, 2013 3:33 AM
Author: JT
Subject: Re: Which naturals better?

On 5 Feb, 09:04, Virgil <> wrote:
> In article
> <>,
>  JT <> wrote:

> > On 4 Feb, 11:02, Frederick Williams <>
> > wrote:

> > > JT wrote:
> > > > Building new natural numbers without zero using NyaN, in any base,
> > > > [...]

> > > You seem to confuse numbers and digits.  Both of these are true:
> > > There is a number zero.
> > > Numbers can be symbolized without the digit zero.

> > > --
> > > When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by
> > > this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
> > > Jonathan Swift: Thoughts on Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting

> > No there is no zero in my list of naturals, in my list is each natural
> > number a discrete ***items***, ***entity*** with a magnitude.

> Zero is a perfectly good "magnitude", and in ever more set theories,
> zero is a perfectly good natural number.
> So how can you have an arithmetic of natural numbers which does not
> allow a numeral representing the first of them??
> --

You do not listen to what i say each natural (not zero) is an entity
with a range if they had no range you could not divide and make
fractions not partition. You can not partition zero it do not have a
range of a natural you can not count zero into the set. Natural
numbers is just sets of arranging an amount of single naturals, they
all have the same magnitude when you say 7 it is an identity for set
(1,1,1,1,1,1,1) now you can say that is (7) but the seven have
members. Each natural identity like 7 is a set of single=1 naturals
with magnitude and zero do not belong to that set.

If you empty the set of (7) by picking out a single item there is no
object zero. And when you count in a single natural first natural
entity is 1 second 2.

There is a language gap here for me a natural is a single 1 and 7
seven is a set of seven members with single ones. So what would like
me to call the one that make up your naturals. I guess in math 7 is a
natural, to me it is an identity used for (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) this set is
countable. The set of (7) is based on the assumption of
(1,1,1,1,1,1,1) i am not sure what mathematicians mean by an identity,
but it seem to me like 7 incorporates the hidden assumption of
1+1+1+1+1+1+1 and thus all natural numbers except for 1 is identities.