Date: Mar 9, 2013 12:41 AM
Author: GS Chandy
Subject: Re: The Overriding Influence of Poverty on Children's  Educational Achievement - Redux

Further GSC's post of Mar 9, 2013 8:04 AM (pasted below my signature for ready reference):

If educators pride themselves on truly knowing "how to teach" (subjects X, or Y, or Z or whatever), then they should go the extra mile and actually LEARN how to teach economically- and educationally-deprived groups such as (in the USA) blacks; hispanics; whatever - and (in India) tribals; 'scheduled' castes; and so on and so forth.

Educators should not be allowed by society to 'cop out' with claims that a particular group 'cannot be educated' or 'does not want to be educated' - or by bringing up excuses like:
> >
> > That explains why immigrant Jews and, more
> > recently, Vietnamese boat people and their children
> > have done so poorly.
> >

This is utterly ridiculous - a cop-out, in fact.

If blacks (in the USA) or tribals (in India) have done so very poorly, then it is for the educators to work as problem solvers, and:

- -- to find out WHY blacks (in the USA) or tribals (in India) are doing so poorly in education;

- -- to work to resolve, in practice on the ground, the specific issues that make the blacks or the tribals do so poorly.

If they are unable to convince blacks/tribals to learn, then they must clearly and unequivocally inform society why this might be so. At that point, it becomes society's problem to make appropriate changes in society.

I personally am certain that - except for specific individuals who are mentally handicapped in some way - anyone who has been able to resolve the problems and issues of 'growing up' from infanthood can definitely learn (provided that you catch him/her early enough, before societal deficiencies turns that individual 'against the social order' - AND provided that you make the subject interesting enough and 'real' enough for that specific individual).

As educators (if they are real educators in the least worth their salt) it is of course a major issue to try and get through the 'value of education' to a group that may not have the slightest inkling of its value or even interest in being educated. By and large, this lack of interest is (I claim) a function of the deprived and depressed circumstances within which the particular deprived group may exist in the specific society under consideration.

If educators do not know how to work as 'problem solvers', they should go out and learn just how to do that. There are tools readily available these days that can help.

If educators are unable/unwilling to learn how to work as 'problem solvers' (within the field of education), they should leave the field and go into selling soap, or hamburgers, or whatever.

GSC
("Still Shoveling!")

GSC posted Mar 9, 2013 8:04 AM:
> Wayne Bishop posted Mar 6, 2013 11:49 PM:
> >
> > That explains why immigrant Jews and, more

> recently,
> > Vietnamese boat people and their children have done
> so
> > poorly.
>
> > Wayne
> >

> Apples and oranges.
>
> The 'contributory factors' for the relative success
> of "immigrant Jews and, more recently, Vietnamese
> boat people and their children" need to be
> effectively studied (not mechanically brought up, as
> here) --- as do the 'contributory factors' for the
> relative lack of success of certain 'home-grown US
> groups' (which is what I presume Professor Bishop is
> covertly referring to).
>
> It takes a little serious thinking (which is quite
> hard work) to discover those important 'contributory
> factors' in both cases. Mechanical thinking, such as
> the example we've seen here, will not do.
>
> I'll warrant that Professor Bishop does not
> adequately understand the meaning of the important
> transitive relationship "CONTRIBUTES TO" in anything
> but the most mechanical 'dictionary fashion'. This
> is clear from his quoted comment above.
>
> I'll also warrant that if the people 'driving the
> educational systems' were ever to arrive at the kind
> of understanding I am discussing, a great many of the
> difficulties and problems that currently trouble your
> educational systems would be quite happily resolved
> (likewise for the difficulties and problems that
> currently trouble our educational systems in India).
>
>
> It is quite remarkable that 'educational experts' do
> not even try to understand the *effective meaning* of
> the relationship "CONTRIBUTES TO".
>
> Or, maybe, it is NOT remarkable at all - because
> there would be a real revolution in all 'learning +
> teaching systems' when such an understanding comes
> about: there will be huge changes in these systems -
> and change is ALWAYS uncomfortable for those who are
> comfortable within the existing incompetent systems.
>
> GSC
> ("Still Shoveling!")



Message was edited by: GS Chandy