The Math Forum

Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by NCTM or The Math Forum.

Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Notice: We are no longer accepting new posts, but the forums will continue to be readable.

Topic: Re: Science Educators Also Under Fire By Traditionalist Math
Warriors #3

Replies: 1   Last Post: Oct 20, 2012 2:55 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
GS Chandy

Posts: 8,307
From: Hyderabad, Mumbai/Bangalore, India
Registered: 9/29/05
Re: Science Educators Also Under Fire By Traditionalist Math
Warriors #3

Posted: Oct 20, 2012 7:50 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

Richard Hake posted Oct 18, 2012 10:17 PM (GSC's remarks interspersed. I have also uploaded and read the complete 19 KB post at <>, but am using the text of this post as reference in my response):
> Some subscribers to Math-Teach might be interested in
> a recent post
> "Science Educators Also Under Fire By Traditionalist
> Math Warriors
> #3" [Hake (2012)]. The abstract reads:

> "Mathematics educators such as Jo Boaler (2012)
> <> are not the only academics who
> have had the
> misfortune of encountering attacks from Wayne Bishop.
> Science
> educators who worked with Cal Tech's Precollege
> Science Initiative
> (CAPSI) project <> have been
> subjected to treatment from Bishop who called on
> federal funding agencies to audit several of their
> science projects in California in the hopes that the
> grant's funds would be revoked."

Could these reactions of Professor Wayne Bishop's possibly be because his own grant proposals are usually turned down, causing him extreme 'Grant Envy', so to speak?

It is possible that this 'grant envy' has created a very painful case of acute stomach gripes or something of that nature, in which case he might actually deserve our pity... That might be one explanation (and, in my view, this is perhaps the most the most likely one). Perhaps this is the 'root cause'. Something of this nature may well be what Professor Bishop may be suffering from. I base this suggestion on his behavior with me on several occasions, at this forum.

Another explanation might be that the aforementioned 'grant envy' leads him to such behavior even WITHOUT him suffering from stomach gripes (i.e., it is a case of pure natural envy - in which case I would not know of any direct way of handling the ailment. There are indirect means of handling such issues, but Professor Bishop and his cohorts and consorts have consistently refused even to look at these means.

In case it is actually a case of severe stomach gripes (or some such physical ailment) that is afflicting him and leading him to such envious behavior, perhaps the ingestion of some Ayurvedic medicines might help: I understand there are a number of such remedies in Ayurveda that - in conjunction with easy breathing practices - could significantly help to handle acute envy, unbridled choler, extreme rage,etc.

As a professional consultant on system design, I am fortunately not a recipient of any such grants to which Professor Wayne Bishop might object in any way or form, and which might lead him to make such attacks on me as described above in Professor Hake's message.

If it IS a case of acute stomach gripes or even chronic stomach gripes, Ayurveda as described above is almost certainly the way to go. If NOT a case of stomach gripes but just pure envy, my indirect means of analyzing and synthesizing solutions to the problems confronted would work - but unfortunately Professor Bishop and his cohorts and consorts have refused to look at these very practical aids to problem solving and decision making.

Please do check out, however, whether Professor Bishop's complaints may have some basis (of any kind): Is any improvement possible in the work described?

If such be the case, then it's necessary to work to remove the grounds of his complaints: that will not be difficult, as Professor Bishop's comments are usually based, I have found in my interactions with him here over the years, on a extremely shallow and superficial understanding of the issues under consideration, whatever they may be. The tools are described at several of my messages at this forum, for instance at my initial post at the thread "On realistic and practical tools for the US educational system" - Do look through the attached material, and you may find something of interest.

More information about the above tool available on request.
> Further evidence that Traditionalist Math Warriors

<SNIPPED some references to above-noted behavior from Bishop and Robert Hansen (see below)>
> Hansen's response at <> to my
> post "Re: Casualty of the Math Wars" <
> /R1q22j> is typical of the pathologic excess of TMW
> rhetoric. Hansen wrote: "I am quite content to keep
> [education researchers] in check by pointing out
> their lack of honesty and method. These poor bastards
> are pandering to social elements, not mathematics. . .
> . . Zealots full of ideology, devoid
> of fact or logic.. . . . Hakes and Boalers are part
> of the weather, albeit, the bad part. . . . . These
> poor bastards have been struggling for 40 years and
> they will struggle for another 40 years.
> I suspect that eventually they will move on to
> something other than mathematics, cause it really isn't
> working out for them here. But I
> don't suspect they will change their ways."
> **********************************************

I must observe that I personally find Mr Robert Hansen's comments above, as described in Hake's message, to be highly objectionable and indeed extremely offensive - and perhaps they are even 'actionable' legally.

He has shown, in his postings here at Math-teach, an understanding of issues even more shallow than that demonstrated by Professor Bishop. I have in several of my postings here demonstrated clearly that Hansen has actively lied in regard to his descriptions of work done by me.

I find these particular remarks of Hansen's to be quite disgusting, and definitely beyond the pale of civilized behavior. I don't wish to comment further on Hansen's post as that might lead me to say things that I would be ashamed of later.


Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© The Math Forum at NCTM 1994-2018. All Rights Reserved.