JT
Posts:
436
Registered:
4/7/12
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Re: Which naturals better?
Posted:
Feb 6, 2013 5:15 PM
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On 6 Feb, 23:07, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> In article
> <58f16111-7283-48c2-b534-6b90d398e...@z9g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,
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> JT <jonas.thornv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 6 Feb, 09:43, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <9b29b491-b822-46c6-965e-267787e4e...@14g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > JT <jonas.thornv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On 6 Feb, 06:03, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <cfd574f7-35c3-448e-a8f8-23b7a8b34...@cd3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > JT <jonas.thornv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On 6 Feb, 01:19, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > In article
> > > > > > > <a80c3b0f-813f-4461-b4b0-545374f10...@dp10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
> > > > > > > ,
>
> > > > > > > JT <jonas.thornv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 5 Feb, 09:06, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > In article
> > > > > > > > > <d3216116-2862-491e-a53a-fc52a2d74...@r8g2000vbj.googlegroups.co
> > > > > > > > > m>,
>
> > > > > > > > > JT <jonas.thornv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 5 Feb, 04:30, JT <jonas.thornv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On 4 Feb, 11:02, Frederick Williams
> > > > > > > > > > > <freddywilli...@btinternet.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > JT wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Building new natural numbers without zero using NyaN,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > > > > > > base,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [...]
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to confuse numbers and digits. Both of these are
> > > > > > > > > > > > true:
> > > > > > > > > > > > There is a number zero.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Numbers can be symbolized without the digit zero.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him
> > > > > > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > > > this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against
> > > > > > > > > > > > him.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Swift: Thoughts on Various Subjects, Moral and
> > > > > > > > > > > > Diverting
>
> > > > > > > > > > > No there is no zero in my list of naturals, in my list is
> > > > > > > > > > > each
> > > > > > > > > > > natural
> > > > > > > > > > > number a discrete ***items***, ***entity*** with a
> > > > > > > > > > > magnitude.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Sorry a single natural is a single entity or item with a
> > > > > > > > > > certain
> > > > > > > > > > magnitude, the numbers is counted in forming sets.
>
> > > > > > > > > If one counts the members of sets to get natural numbers then
> > > > > > > > > counting
> > > > > > > > > the members of the empty set shuld give us a natural too.
> > > > > > > > > --
>
> > > > > > > > Isn't it the members forming sets, without any member how can
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > a set?
>
> > > > > > > Given any two sets, one should have an intersection set whose
> > > > > > > mambers
> > > > > > > are only those in both of the given sets, so what is the
> > > > > > > intersection
> > > > > > > set for {1,3,5} and {2,4,6} if not an empty set?
>
> > > > > > > > The set is just a placeholder for numbers, it is not a
> > > > > > > > mathematical
> > > > > > > > entity.
>
> > > > > > > A set is a container for whatever one wished to put in it.
>
> > > > > > > > Balls and buckets (bucket 1=6 balls) (bucket 2=3 balls) now i
> > > > > > > > pour
> > > > > > > > over the three balls to the bucket 2 and we have nine balls in
> > > > > > > > bucket
> > > > > > > > two. And you ask me what todo with the empty bucket?
>
> > > > > > > Do you not believe a bucket can be empty?
> > > > > > > --
>
> > > > > > If i pour over balls from two buckets to a third, there is really no
> > > > > > need to keep count upon the two empty buckets. Example 3+6+9 now we
> > > > > > fill last bucket with the balls of the previous according to your
> > > > > > definition there still will be 0+0+9. It is just moronic.
>
> > > > > What you have just claimed is considerably more moronic.
>
> > > > > In what I regard as a reasonable world, such a shift as you describe
> > > > > from 3+6+9 will result in 0+0+18, not 0+0+9
> > > > > --
>
> > > > Send it to the debugger, let him look at those two zeros while he is
> > > > on it ;D
>
> > > What for? do those 9 balls in you model just vanish for no reason?
> > > --
>
> > No that would be in your model when you divided a number with an empty
> > bucket.
>
> But in my arithmetic, as in most, one is prohibited from dividing by
> zero, but not prohibited from having a zero.
>
> In standard arithmetic it turns out to be more useful to a have
> divisions by zero prohibited but subtractions resulting in zero allowed.
>
> Among other things, there are places on my tax forms which require that
> a number be subtracted from itself, resulting in zero.
>
> Are you sure that there are no such places on your tax forms?
> --
Why state the obvious an empty field have no value.
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