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Topic: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Replies: 194   Last Post: Jun 25, 2005 8:48 PM

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Arthur J. O'Dwyer

Posts: 91
Registered: 12/13/04
Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Posted: Jun 13, 2005 8:18 PM
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[fups trimmed]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Minus XVII wrote:
>
> a paradox is just poorly chosen words.
>
> this "paradox" simply doesn't include the time
> after which all the other guys in town have been shaven,
> although babers invariably get other barbers
> to do their hair, I beleive.


Hence the story about the town with two barbers, one with neat hair and
one with unkempt hair. Smart visitors to this town invariably went to the
shop of the barber with the unkempt hair --- because he was obviously the
guy who cut the hair of the neat barber!

> how is this "paradox" any different\
> than the one about sets not containing themselves,


In fact it is isomorphic to Russell's set paradox, which deals with
"the set of all sets not containing themselves as members". Now, before
Russell it was considered quite possible for a set to contain itself ---
e.g., the set of all sets seems very well-defined! As does the set of
all sets-containing-two-items, or the power set of {1,2,3}.

Russell's paradox shows that contrary to intuition, just because we
can name something in mathematical notation doesn't mean it "exists"
in the mathematical sense. And thus there are sets that don't exist!
(Not merely empty sets. The empty set is kind of like zero; sets like
Russell's set are more like numbers-that-don't-exist.)

The paradox is "solved" by denying that certain uncountable collections
are really "sets" at all; thus we talk about the "class of all sets"
instead of the "set of all sets". (And "the class of all classes" is
also meaningless, I think; do we need meta-classes and meta-meta-classes?)

</display of innumeracy>

> or "I am lying, now?"

This one's fundamentally different, as far as I can tell.
I think someone already mentioned Smullyan's Humpty Dumpty's solution
to all these paradoxes, which is similar to yours --- "That's not a
paradox, it's just a bald contradiction!" Which is a valid argument,
up to a point, IMHO.

-Arthur


Date Subject Author
6/4/05
Read An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/4/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
abc
6/4/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/6/05
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tadchem
6/6/05
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David Hartley
6/6/05
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tadchem
6/6/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/7/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Prai Jei
6/9/05
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Russell Blackadar
6/7/05
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Prai Jei
6/7/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/9/05
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Rich Grise
6/9/05
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tadchem
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/4/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/5/05
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David Hartley
6/6/05
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abc
6/6/05
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DK
6/4/05
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Jim Sprigs
6/4/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/4/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
abc
6/5/05
Read Re: A new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/4/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/5/05
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Glenn C. Rhoads
6/5/05
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JimC
6/5/05
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Torkel Franzen
6/5/05
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JimC
6/5/05
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Torkel Franzen
6/9/05
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Rich Grise
6/9/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark Brader
6/9/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Timothy Little
6/10/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Rich Grise
6/10/05
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Jim Collier
6/5/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Dgates
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark Brader
6/6/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Prai Jei
6/6/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Keith Ramsay
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
abc
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Me and Julio down by the schoolyard.
6/6/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
abc
6/5/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/5/05
Read Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/6/05
Read Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/6/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Torkel Franzen
6/6/05
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Dr. David Kirkby
6/6/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
David Kastrup
6/6/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Robert Low
6/6/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
David Hartley
6/6/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/6/05
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Alex Selby
6/6/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
William Elliot
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Tim S Roberts
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/6/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
David Hartley
6/6/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/6/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Brian Quincy Hutchings
6/6/05
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Guy Corrigall
6/6/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
petergregorychapman@hotmail.com
6/7/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Robert Low
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Ryan Reich
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Robert Low
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Brian Quincy Hutchings
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Robert Low
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Barbara Bailey
6/8/05
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Mitch Harris
6/9/05
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Brian Quincy Hutchings
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Ryan Reich
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Robert Low
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Ryan Reich
6/8/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Robert Low
6/8/05
Read I know the sum, but not the numbers. (was Re: Math posers...)
Dgates
6/8/05
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Ryan Reich
6/8/05
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Ryan Reich
6/8/05
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Jon Haugsand
6/8/05
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Ryan Reich
6/9/05
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Dgates
6/9/05
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Jon Haugsand
6/11/05
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Julie Waters
6/11/05
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Jon Haugsand
6/11/05
Read Re: I know the sum, but not the numbers.
Julie Waters
6/7/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark Brader
6/7/05
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anzaurres1@hotmail.com
6/7/05
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Mark Brader
6/7/05
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Ryan Reich
6/10/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/7/05
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Robert Low
6/8/05
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Timothy Little
6/8/05
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Robert Low
6/7/05
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Ryan Reich
6/7/05
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Woody Brison
6/9/05
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Russell Blackadar
6/10/05
Read Dubya can play chess?
Woody Brison
6/10/05
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Dr. David Kirkby
6/10/05
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Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
6/10/05
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Dr. David Kirkby
6/10/05
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Daryl McCullough
6/11/05
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Dr. David Kirkby
6/11/05
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Daryl McCullough
6/11/05
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Julie Waters
6/11/05
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Daryl McCullough
6/11/05
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Gerry Quinn
6/10/05
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David Kastrup
6/11/05
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Jesse F. Hughes
6/11/05
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Russell Blackadar
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/7/05
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nyikovary
6/7/05
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Nis Jorgensen
6/7/05
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Matthew Russotto
6/7/05
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Ryan Reich
6/7/05
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Bikash K Agarwalla
6/7/05
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Ed Murphy
6/8/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark Brader
6/9/05
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Rich Grise
6/9/05
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Phil Nicholson
6/11/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/11/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Ed Murphy
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark
6/11/05
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Mark J. Tilford
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
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Robert Israel
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Timothy Little
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark
6/13/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/16/05
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Larry Tapper
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
David Hartley
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/16/05
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lasse_rempe@yahoo.de
6/16/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/17/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Brian Chandler
6/17/05
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Martin DeMello
6/17/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Brian Chandler
6/17/05
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Richard Henry
6/12/05
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Robert Low
6/12/05
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Martin DeMello
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/13/05
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Matthew Russotto
6/12/05
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Nick Atty
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
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David McAnally
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
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Peter Smyth
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Martin DeMello
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/19/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark Brader
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/12/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark
6/13/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark Brader
6/13/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark
6/13/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark Brader
6/13/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark
6/13/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Matthew Russotto
6/13/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Brian Quincy Hutchings
6/13/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Arthur J. O'Dwyer
6/17/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/17/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark Brader
6/18/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/18/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Mark Brader
6/18/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/20/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/25/05
Read Re: Chemistry posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/25/05
Read Re: Chemistry posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
racqueteer@killspamverizon.net
6/25/05
Read Re: Chemistry posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual
game!
Denis Feldmann
6/25/05
Read Re: Chemistry posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/25/05
Read Re: Chemistry posers. Re: An new and very interesting
intellectual game!
Jean-Claude Arbaut
6/25/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/25/05
Read Re: Chemistry posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
racqueteer@killspamverizon.net
6/25/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/17/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/19/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/19/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
Keith Ramsay
6/20/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/25/05
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vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/19/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/19/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/19/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com
6/19/05
Read Re: Math posers. Re: An new and very interesting intellectual game!
vkarlamov@yahoo.com

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