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Topic: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Replies: 106   Last Post: Jul 20, 2011 10:00 AM

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lwalke3@lausd.net

Posts: 2,394
Registered: 8/3/07
Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Posted: May 10, 2011 3:13 PM
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On May 10, 9:13 am, James Burns <burns...@osu.edu> wrote:
> Transfer Principle wrote:
> > But by that count, _no_ real has an infinite representation,
> > since any representation of that real, in practice, has only
> > finitely many characters.

>  From context, it looks like you mean " _every_ real has a finite
> representation". I call ".99[bar]" a finite representation,
> but this does not prevent the same number from having an infinite
> representation.
> The rest of the real numbers -- that is, /almost all/ of them --
> have /only/ infinite representations, whether you take that either
> to mean the listing of the digits in the decimal representation
> or to mean any other specifiable scheme (AKA algorithm) that
> will tell you what these digits are.


OK, I agree with what you're saying here re: computable reals and
finite representations.

> I gathered as much from your previous post. However, it looks
> like a very arbitrary distinction you make -- totally lacking in
> motivation. What I mean to say is: WHY do you make THAT distinction
> in THAT way?
> byron seems to be throughly absorbed in wrestling with the Nature
> of Truth. How are you advancing /byron's/ project by your distinction
> between numbers representable as a/10^b and numbers representable
> as a/11^b


The undecimal (base 11) reals?

It's evident that byron intends the decimal reals, and not the
undecimal reals? We gather this from context: he writes .99[bar]=1,
and had this referred to the undecimal reals, .99[bar] would equal
the fraction nine-tenths (.9 decimal). And I bet even byron knows
that nine-tenths doesn't equal unity.

So by context, we conclude that byron intends the decimal reals --
the set of reals with only finitely many nonzero decimal digits (also
known as the ring Z[.1]).

> > Now we know that in classical analysis, having a finite decimal
> > representation doesn't preclude a real number from having an
> > infinite such representation as well, but byron isn't bound by
> > what classical analysis proves.

> I don't see why your comment about byron is so. Could you expand
> on the reasons behind your assertion here?


Classical analysis proves that a real number can have both a finite
and an infinite decimal representation. Now byron tells us that
therefore, math ends in "meaninglessness."

So this leaves me wondering -- can there be a "meaning_ful_" math,
one that avoids the undesirable classical result? If such a theory
exists, then it's not bound by classical results -- indeed its aim
would be to avoid the result .99[bar]=1 that leads to math ending
in "meaninglessness."

> > If I knew how to discourage use of a word without insulting its
> > users, I'd do so in a heartbeat.

> You have your own way of scoring the moral righteousness of
> others' posts (and even your own posts, occasionally). I don't
> really expect that to change. However, let me put on my
> salesman's hat for just a moment while I point out the
> advantages of my own way of scoring posts for moral
> righteousness.
> My own method of scoring (described upthread) is directed
> toward making everbody truthful.


But what is "truth," if you will? Indeed, byron himself asks this
in another thread:

byron, 7th of May, approx. 8AM Greenwich
"Aatu Koskensilta makes the claim that it is the mathematical
community
that decides what is true or a proof
who is this mathematical community
is it the grads
or
masters
or doctorates
or proffs
who is this mathematical community that tells us what truth/proof is"

(This last line is also the title of the relevant thread.)

This is a _very_ good question. There does appear to be this
"mathematical community" that decides what is true -- and nowhere is
this more evident than on sci.math. And anyone who doesn't agree with
the consensus on what is considered true ends up receiving a string of
those overused words.


Date Subject Author
4/5/11
Read five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
4/5/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Porky Pig Jr
4/25/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/21/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
4/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jacob
4/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Tim Little
4/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Marshall
4/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jacob
4/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
4/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
4/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jacob
4/14/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
4/16/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
4/29/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jack Markan
5/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jack Markan
5/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Bill
5/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/5/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/5/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/5/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/5/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
tommyrjensen@gmail.com
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
lwalke3@lausd.net
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Marshall
5/9/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jim Burns
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Virgil
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
lwalke3@lausd.net
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
lwalke3@lausd.net
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jim Burns
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
lwalke3@lausd.net
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
lwalke3@lausd.net
5/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jim Burns
5/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
lwalke3@lausd.net
5/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
MoeBlee
5/11/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jim Burns
5/13/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
lwalke3@lausd.net
5/13/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
MoeBlee
5/14/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jim Burns
6/2/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
6/3/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
6/1/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
6/2/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
6/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
6/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
FredJeffries@gmail.com
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Michael Stemper
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
MoeBlee
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Daryl McCullough
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Rotwang
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jesse F. Hughes
5/10/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Marshall
5/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/18/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/19/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
5/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Karthik
5/6/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
Jim Ferry
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
David Yen
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/7/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
5/22/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/29/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/30/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
5/30/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
6/4/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
6/5/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
YBM
7/19/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron
7/20/11
Read Re: five reasons why mathematics ends in meaninglessness
byron

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