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Topic: Matheology § 038
Replies: 94   Last Post: Jun 19, 2012 12:56 PM

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Horand.Gassmann@googlemail.com

Posts: 554
Registered: 2/4/08
Re: Matheology § 038
Posted: Jun 18, 2012 4:36 PM
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On Jun 18, 5:11 pm, "LudovicoVan" <ju...@diegidio.name> wrote:
> "Gus Gassmann" <horand.gassm...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8f33566a-f2a1-4aef-811d-b7e8a447168c@j9g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > On Jun 18, 1:22 pm, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> >> In article
> >> <3694188a-d258-4273-b904-c9dc8ce80...@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >>  WM <mueck...@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:

> >> > On 17 Jun., 19:36, PotatoSauce <kiwisqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > Why are we talking about set of all sets?
>
> >> > Because your Platonism implies that problem unless you errect an
> >> > artificial border.

>
> >> It is abuse of language called self-reference  that produces those
> >> problems, not the set theory.

>
> >> ZFC, NBG, Morse-Kelley and similar set theories, have no such problems.
>
> > Wait a minute. Am I parsing this correctly? ZFC has no problem with
> > self-reference? I thought Goedel showed that any axiom system strong
> > enough to encode PA can be made to be self-referential. Isn't that the
> > essence of the Goedel sentence and in fact of the proof?

>
> Maybe it is not too incorrect to say (informally) that what is required is
> an arithmetical system at least strong enough to be able to describe its own
> behavior (i.e. where one can code statements and have symbols to talk about
> the set of -say- provable/refutable sentences, etc.  But I won't guarantee
> for the details...).
>
> Otherwise no, self-referentiality is not a necessary ingredient to construct
> undecidable statements:
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_incompleteness_theorems#The...>


Interesting. I'll have to try to digest that. Thanks.




Date Subject Author
6/14/12
Read Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12
Read Re: WM'sMatheology � 038
Uergil
6/14/12
Read Re: WM'sMatheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12
Read Re: WM'sMatheology � 038
Uergil
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Jürgen R.
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Jürgen R.
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Horand.Gassmann@googlemail.com
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Uergil
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ralf Bader
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Jürgen R.
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Jürgen R.
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Jürgen R.
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
YBM
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Horand.Gassmann@googlemail.com
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
LudovicoVan
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Horand.Gassmann@googlemail.com
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
Ki Song
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/16/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Virgil
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Uergil
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Uergil
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Uergil
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Uergil
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Uergil
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
LudovicoVan
6/18/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Uergil
6/19/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/12
Read Re: Matheology � 038
Uergil
6/15/12
Read Re: Matheology § 038
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