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Topic: [ap-calculus] Dual credit and AP at the same time
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Mike May

Posts: 220
Registered: 11/29/06
[ap-calculus] Dual credit and AP at the same time
Posted: Sep 23, 2012 6:17 PM
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Some notes form the college side,

This is actually a fairly common situation that has been covered a number
of times in the listserve.
[Normal full disclosure note. I have been an AP reader and I teach at Saint
Louis University, which has a large dual credit program.]

The normal terminology for such a program is a dual credit program. As one
would expect, the devil is in the details. There is a national body
for dual credit
programs, so I will start by assuming that the program you are discussing is
connected with and approved by that body. The basic idea is that the course is
run as an extension of the sponsoring college and subject to the same kind of
quality controls as the course at the college. The most obvious
difference from the
student point of view is that it does not depend on a single high stakes test.
Depending on the individual student, that is either a good or a bad thing.

The biggest issue from the teacher point of view is that this would have you
serving two master, your high school and a college. They may have different
objectives and rules at times.

Things to consider in such a program:
1) Do you have students that will be better served by a dual credit program
as opposed to an AP course? (I always start with looking at the student needs.)

2) How much extra work will this be for you? (As someone who has worked
with a dual credit program, our teacher credentialing program is more rigorous,
and our equivalent of the course audit is tougher. Since we don't rely on a
single high stakes exam, we have to use other means for quality control.)

3) Ideally, a dual credit program is a partnership between your school and the
college. What else do you and your students get out of the partnership?
(For our program the students get certain privileges as students of the
university. Teachers get some pay from the university. They also get
to participate
in a professional development program. There is some forming of a community of
support for the teachers teaching the same discipline. We also have a number
of options for working with students when they top out of the high
school's offerings.)

4) Will the credit transfer to the schools your students want to
attend? This is often
determined by the status of the college offering the dual credit.

As I noted above, my school runs a large dual credit program. At the last
professional development session with the high school teachers, I took
a survey,
and most are also doing AP at the same time. Some schools are working
with more
than one dual credit program, with different courses aligned with
different programs.

The issue of the two kinds of programs is a recurring issue on the
forum, and will
probably remain so forever since it is rooted in trying to cooperate between
multiple large educational systems. In such an encounter I assume that there
is no simple best choice for all students.

E-mail me directly if you have more questions. The last long message
I sent on to the
forum was a response where the teacher was complaining that the principal wanted
to eliminate AP and go exclusively to dual credit. The short version
of my message
was that I have enough contact and have been a reader and the AP
program is quite
good. My steady line is that from the college side I am concerned
about the quality
of the course and the teaching. I think of the mechanism of the
awarding of credit
as much less important.

Mike May, S.J.
Saint Louis University

> Subject: ap credit versus pay for college credit
> From: "Tamblyn, Mike" <>
> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:23:33 -0500
> If you have an opinion, please email me off list. I have been approached by
> the local university to offer my students college credit for their ap calc
> class. They would pay a 50% price of the credits, but would not need to
> worry about taking the ap test to get college credit and worry about which
> colleges except which ap scores. Obviously that is a higher price than an
> $80 ap exam. Kids could do one or the other or both I believe, take it for
> college credits or take it for the ap test. Thoughts?
> I appreciate your wisdom,
> Mike

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