On 04/03/2013 10:20 PM, Archimedes Plutonium wrote: > On Apr 3, 7:43 pm, David Bernier <david...@videotron.ca> wrote: >> On 04/03/2013 07:58 PM, Archimedes Plutonium wrote: >> >>> On Apr 3, 6:24 pm, Archimedes Plutonium >>> <plutonium.archime...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On Apr 3, 3:47 pm, Archimedes Plutonium >>> (snipped) >> >>>> Now I am having a hard time of locating a vital piece of information. >>>> I need to know the direction of Sun's motion, its 220 km/sec relative >>>> to the plane of the ecliptic. I would hazard to guess that the motion >>>> is parallel to the plane of ecliptic, in other words the linear >>>> forward motion of the Sun is the plane ecliptic itself as if the plane >>>> had a arrow of direction. >> >>>> I intuitively find it hard to think that the motion of the Sun is >>>> anywhere off the plane of the ecliptic. >> >> I suspect that the 3-D rectangular origin (0, 0, 0) in >> rectangular coordinates is or is near the centre of >> mass (barycentre) of the solar system. >> >> The ecliptic is a reference plane that approximates >> very well the mean orbit of the earth around the sun. >> >> >> >>>> I had a look in Kaufmann's text Universe on page 461 and he talks >>>> about the Sun relative to stars nearby and the Perseus arm, Orion >>>> bridge and Sagittarius arm. I looked in Wikipedia for some light shed >>>> on the question with no luck. >> >>>> So the question is quite simple, as to what is the direction of motion >>>> of the Sun of its 220km/sec relative to the Plane of the Ecliptic? Is >>>> the direction in the plane or is it some angle off that plane? >> >> I sincerely doubt that people in solar dynamics would use >> an ecliptic reference plane where the sun would move >> at 220 km/sec . >> >> In the old days, the proper motions of extra-solar stars >> relative to the earth were not known. >> >> Wikipedia quote: >> >> << The Sun travels in a nearly circular orbit (the solar circle) about >> the center of the Milky Way at a speed of about 220 km/s at a radius of >> 8 ± 0.65 kpc from the center, which can be taken as the rate of >> rotation of the Milky Way itself at this radius. >> >> >> cf.:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_motion >> >> dave >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Let me phrase my question more clearly. >> >>> Let me define the Sun's ecliptic as the plane in which the Sun's >>> equator radiates outward, so that the Sun's equator plane forms the >>> Solar System ecliptic. Now it happens from Maxwell Equations in EM >>> gravity that all the planets lie mostly or near that ecliptic. When >>> electricity and magnetism forms gravity, then the bodies would lie >>> near or on that ecliptic. >> >>> Now the question of direction of the Sun's 220 km/sec is a vector >>> direction of an angle from the center of the Sun. Is the Sun moving >>> its 220km/sec of a vector that is in that equator and thus ecliptic? >>> Or is that 220km/sec some angle off of that equator-ecliptic plane? >>> For instance is the 220km/sec in a direction of the poles of the Sun >>> and thus the motion is 90degrees from the ecliptic? If the direction >>> is 0degrees then the 220km/sec is in the ecliptic. >> >>> Now if the Sun is 0degrees of its 220km/sec, then the question is, at >>> what day of the Earth year is the Sun moving to? In other words, as >>> the Earth revolves around the Sun, there is one day of that revolution >>> in which the Sun is moving in Space in that direction. >> >>> -- >> >>> Google seems to have stopped doing author-archives as of 2012. >>> Only Drexel's Math Forum has done a excellent, simple and fair author- >>> archiving of AP posts to sci.math for the past several years as seen >>> here: >> >>> http://mathforum.org/kb/profile.jspa?userID=499986 >> >>> Archimedes Plutonium >>> http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium >>> whole entire Universe is just one big atom >>> where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies >> >> -- >> Jesus is an Anarchist. -- J.R. > > > Hi David, let me see if I can make my question more clear. > > Suppose I am holding the Sun (a big ball) and you nearby at a distance > of say 10meters is holding a ball called Earth. Now you are revolving > (walking very slowly around me) and a complete revolution is 365 days. > > Now the Plane of Ecliptic is defined as the poles of the Sun forming > an equator and this equator extended outwards from the Sun is the > plane of ecliptic. Now it happens to be the case that most of the > planets lie in this plane of ecliptic. > > Now I am standing still while you walk around me holding the Sun. But > what if I start to move, the Sun moving, and it does not have to be > fast motion compared to Earth's 29km/sec. I do not have to move a > 220km/sec which would be brisk and fast compared to 29km/sec. Let us > say I am moving slowly, about a fraction of the pace that David > holding Earth is moving around the Sun. > > So, the question, is David, at what day of the year, say last year of > 2012, of what day of the year did the Sun cross the point in the > Earth's revolution since the Sun is moving in Space at 220km/sec. Did > this crossing of the Earth's revolution happen on a winter day? or a > Spring or Summer or Autumn day? > > You see, David, the flaw of Newtonian gravity and General Relativity > is that they are theories based on a premiss that the Sun has 0 speed > in Space. If the Sun has no speed in Space, then planets of slow > speeds like Jupiter of 13km/sec can go around the Sun and be a stable > system for billions of years. But if the Sun moves at 220km/sec in > Space, then a Jupiter going around the Sun at 13km/sec can only be > stable and going on for billions of years if a gravity-cell exists for > the Sun where a axis extends out to the Oort Cloud and this cell > rotates on that axis, and provides a Solid-Body-Rotation of all the > objects in the Solar System. So that regardless of Sun moving at 2km/ > sec or 220km/sec or 500km/sec, that the planets will tag along and the > solar system remain stable because the entire solar system is rotating > around a gravity cell axis.
I suggest to get an intuition about the gravitational perturbation of the Oort Cloud and other light-years away masses on the main solar system bodies, to have a look at Newton's elementary study of moon tidal forces on the earth.
Gravity is an inverse square law. So, at the point on earth Now closest to the Moon, the Moon pulls a bit more on a standard kilogram etalon (Paris, France) than it would to on an "identical twin" standard kilogram etalon (Paris, France) located at the other end of the earth: antipodal to the point nearest to our Moon Now ...
That, in essence, is the nature of tidal forces.
Through mathematical tricks, we can substract the force on a standard kilogram etalon (Paris, France) imaginationationanally located Now at the earth's very centre (of Gravity) ...
Newton and his geometric diagrams on moon tidal forces on the earth's surface:
That section explains the perturbation of a faraway big massive body on nearby things that are far enough away that the differential gravity field from one place to the second can cause so-called tidal forces, etc.
> My question, David, was, what day of year 2012 did the Sun moving at > 220km/sec cross the path of where Earth was going to revolve in its > 365 days? Was it a winter or spring or summer or autumn day of 2012 > where the Sun passed the spot in the revolution of Earth in its plane > of ecliptic orbit.
I don't understand, sorry.
> > In other words, our entire solar system is a solid body rotation > produced by Maxwell Equations. > > I realize all of this is new to physics and astronomy, because no-one > has ever asked this question before-- what day of the year 2012 did > the Sun traverse the spot of the Earth's orbit.