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Topic: Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Replies: 2   Last Post: Apr 10, 2014 9:42 PM

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GS Chandy

Posts: 6,722
From: Hyderabad, Mumbai/Bangalore, India
Registered: 9/29/05
Re: How science shaped modern 'rejection of religion'
Posted: Apr 10, 2014 9:36 AM
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Greg Goodknight (GG) posted Apr 10, 2014 10:48 AM (http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9431865) - GSC's remarks follow:
>
> On 04/09/2014 07:45 PM, kirby urner wrote:

> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Greg Goodknight
> <good@nccn.net
> > <mailto:good@nccn.net>> wrote:
> >

> >> (GG): There are no tipping points, there is no
> >>demonstrated danger of
> >> runaway positive feedback warmings. The IPCC
> >>AR4 triumphantly
> >> raised the lower limit for climate sensitivity
> >>to CO2 from 1.5 up
> >> to 2, and the latest AR5 brought it back down
> >>to 1.5, while
> >> physicists looking at the data (as opposed to
> >>computer modeling
> >> scenarios) put it closer to 1.2 degrees for a
> >>doubling. Some
> >> (Lindzen and Choi, for example) think it could
> >>be as low as .6
> >> degrees for a doubling, which would be heavily
> >>damped with
> >> negative feedbacks.

> >
> > (Kirby Urner, KU): Very comforting Greg, that you are
> >in touch with

> the infallible
> > sources on this issue.
> >
> > Not everyone is so sure:
> >
> >http://theconversation.com/methane-and-the-risk-of-runaway-global-warming-16275
> >
> > Lets remember to tease apart "tipping point" /
> >"catastrophe" / "global
> > warming" as not-synonyms.
> >
> > A tipping point could lead to thermo-nuclear war
> >and that's not
> > "global warming" on the books, but rather a
> >precursor to global
> > cooling, by most models.

>
> (GG) Tipping point in the climate debate refers to a
> runaway warming event
> due to positive feedbacks in the climate, which is
> what the warming
> scenarios are made of. To have the danger, you pretty
> much need climate
> sensitivity to be at or above 2 degrees C, but the
> AR5 had to admit 1.5C
> couldn't be ruled out, and then there's those pesky
> physicists who are
> looking at 1.2C as the most likely, which is no
> feedbacks at all.
>
> Again, I don't expect you to be comforted by anything
> but the scary
> news, Kirb. It is where the herd has been heading.
>
> Seen the sea ice anomaly lately? The seas are the
> most efficient solar
> collectors the world has, the big canary in the coal
> mine:
>
> http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.
> daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg
>
> Personally, I think the solar physicists forecasting
> a slide into a
> major solar minimum in the next solar cycles have the
> inside track. We
> shall see.
>
> -Greg
>

I'm happy for you that you're able to find so much comfort in the mechancial science that keeps telling you:

The Miracle Mantra:

"WE (HUMANS) ARE THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE! -- AND THIS EARTH HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO US AS OUR PLAYTHING TO CONSUME AS WE DESIRE!"

Some of us find it difficult to believe that the chanting of such mantras will help us resolve the real problems and issues that confront us (human beings on earth).

I guess we shall have to see what we shall see.

A (humble) suggestion:

Study something about the 'exponential function' AND its implications.

A recent post of mine (dt. Apr 10, 2014 8:30 AM, http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?messageID=9431868? )

had something to say about the authoritative studies done on the exponential function and its implications by Al Bartlett.

For ready reference, I provide a link to the Bartlett book once again below:

"The Essential Exponential! For the Future of Our Planet" - a book by Albert A. Bartlett
- - -- http://www.albartlett.org/books/essential_exponential.html

Understanding this will demand stepping out of the comfort zone of the "Mantra" above-noted and stepping into some uncharted territories.

If you do manage to thus step out, some little study of 'systems' may help to move beyond 'mechanical science'.

In several of my earlier posts I've suggested how this could be done. Very specifically, application (to issues of interest to you) of a systems aid to problem solving and decision making called the 'One Page Management System' (OPMS) would be useful.

(I note that Robert Hansen has had many sceptical words to say about it: given the 'wisdom' he's demonstrated and the advanced ideas he has been espousing here at Math-teach, his scepticism might well the best available recommendation for the OPMS).

Some information about OPMS and its applications (some successful; several ongoing; some failures) is available at the attachments to my post heading the thread "Democracy: how to achieve it?" - see http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=2419536).

Caution: A very small amount of learning and a fair bit of 'unlearning' are required to use the OPMS - and some do find it quite difficult to do needed unlearning.

In regard to one of your comments to Kirby Urner in your post, namely:
>
> (GG): Again, I don't expect you to be comforted by
>anything but the scary
> news, Kirb. It is where the herd has been heading.
>

I guess you might have heard about the way lemmings behave when confronted with a catastrophic non-availability of resources? Just asking.

GSC


Message was edited by: GS Chandy



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