Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Topic: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Replies: 46   Last Post: Jun 7, 2001 1:19 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Victor Steinbok

Posts: 858
Registered: 12/3/04
Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Posted: May 30, 2001 1:59 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

At 10:37 AM -0700 5/30/01, Wayne Bishop wrote:
>
>If you think that Barry Simon's article was not primarily about the
>importance of *proof* in mathematics, not even Euclidean geometry in
>spite of its title let alone some genuflection to the two-column
>proof format, I believe that you are missing his point. In
>effect, yes, you *are* criticizing proof itself, perhaps
>inadvertently, but that is the effect. For someone quite
>knowledgeable about geometry, that is amazing, even tragic, but that
>makes it no less true.
>
>Perhaps you would clarify your message by offering some concrete
>examples of proof as you would like to see it developed in the
>precollegiate mathematics curriculum? If you have thoughts for
>improving it at the university level, those remarks would be helpful
>as well. Tossing a grenade into Simon's article while claiming that
>proof is central to mathematics is not.


The fact that Wayne is trying to weasel his way out of yet another
lie is not surprising. That he shields his ample body with Barry
Simon effigy is appalling.

The issue of proof being central to mathematics is a red herring (the
only kind Bishop recognizes). No one is arguing that it is not. On
the other hand, the issue of what constitutes proof is wide open. The
argument is that there is no reason to emphasize two-column proof in
geometry classes at the exclusion of other approaches. "Two-column"
is an emphasis on format, perhaps even formal organization of
thought, but not on "proof". As such, the "two-column" issue is
irrelevant to mathematics (when was the last time any mathematician
was forced to adhere to the two-column format the way that some
teachers make students do?).

But there is more at issue here as well. Proof may be central to
mathematics, but WHEN does it become central to mathematics
EDUCATION? Certainly one should not wait until college to get a
notion of proof--that is far too late. Waiting to talk about it until
a formal course in Euclidean Geometry (yet another red herring, but
more on that elsewhere) is also inappropriate. The question, however,
remains--when should students be 1) exposed to proof, 2) able to
recognize a proof, 3) able to affect a proof? My experience tells me
that (1) happens around grade 6 in US schools--about the same time as
in other countries. However, (2) and (3) only happen for select few,
not even all of those intending to become mathematics majors in
college. The latter appears to be Barry Simon's concern. Wayne's
concern, on the other hand, is just to plop his robust ego into a
bucket to make waves.

So let Wayne's bleating continue, but, if we want to have a
productive discussion of proofs, ignore his posts.

VS-)




Date Subject Author
5/25/01
Read Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Wayne Bishop
5/25/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Michael Goldenberg
5/25/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Wayne Bishop
5/25/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Michael Goldenberg
5/29/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Joshua Zucker aka Dr. Schwa
5/25/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Deirdre Collins
5/25/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Lawrence Brown
5/26/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Wayne Bishop
5/26/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Haim
5/26/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Michael Paul Goldenberg
5/26/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Haim
5/27/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Michael Paul Goldenberg
5/27/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Haim
5/27/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Michael Paul Goldenberg
5/28/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Haim
5/29/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
me@talmanl1.mscd.edu
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Wayne Bishop
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Osher Doctorow
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Michael Paul Goldenberg
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
me@talmanl1.mscd.edu
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Wayne Bishop
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Michael Goldenberg
5/30/01
Read Willow Run School District and Saxon Math
Michael Goldenberg
5/30/01
Read Re: Willow Run School District and Saxon Math
Guy Brandenburg
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
me@talmanl1.mscd.edu
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Wayne Bishop
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
Victor Steinbok
5/30/01
Read Proof in Precollegiate Mathematics
Wayne Bishop
5/30/01
Read Re: Proof in Precollegiate Mathematics
Michael Goldenberg
5/30/01
Read Re: Proof in Precollegiate Mathematics
Wayne Bishop
5/30/01
Read Re: Proof in Precollegiate Mathematics
Michael Goldenberg
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
me@talmanl1.mscd.edu
5/30/01
Read Re: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions
me@talmanl1.mscd.edu
5/30/01
Read Two Column Proof (was: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions)
Haim
5/30/01
Read Re: Two Column Proof (was: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions)
Joshua Zucker aka Dr. Schwa
5/31/01
Read Re: Two Column Proof (was: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions)
Osher Doctorow
5/31/01
Read Re: Two Column Proof (was: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions)
Osher Doctorow
6/1/01
Read Two Column Proof
Haim
6/1/01
Read Re: Two Column Proof
me@talmanl1.mscd.edu
6/1/01
Read Two Column Proof
Haim
5/31/01
Read Re: Two Column Proof (was: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions)
Victor Steinbok
6/1/01
Read Two Column Proof
Haim
5/31/01
Read Re: Two Column Proof (was: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions)
Wayne Bishop
5/31/01
Read Re: Two Column Proof (was: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions)
me@talmanl1.mscd.edu
6/1/01
Read Two Column Proof
Haim
6/7/01
Read Re: Two Column Proof (was: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions)
me@talmanl1.mscd.edu
6/7/01
Read Re: Two Column Proof (was: Algebra/Geometry Text Suggestions)
Wayne Bishop

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.