Significance of Irrational NumbersDate: 08/23/99 at 11:25:34 From: Nkiruka Ukachukwu Subject: Nonsensical numbers I can conceptualize numbers like .5, .45, even .34587 and .000082 - just so long as there is a finite number of digits following the decimal point. But what exactly is the meaning of .3333333... or pi? How do we conceptualize numbers with decimals that have no end? Were non-terminating decimals created and added to our number system or were they discovered as already being a part of our number system? Why even acknowledge them? What's the difference between "point three repeating" and "point three to the 105th decimal place?" Date: 08/23/99 at 12:07:37 From: Doctor Ian Subject: Re: Nonsensical numbers Hi, This is a good question. It's easy to get into the habit of just following the rules that are taught in mathematics classes without ever stopping to think about what's really going on. One way to conceptualize numbers is as points on a line, the 'real line', which contains all the 'real numbers': <--------+---------> 0 There has to be a number at every place on the line. That is, you can't move to a place on the line and find that there is no number there. The integers take some of these places, <---+---+---+---+---+---+---> -1 0 1 2 3 4 The rational numbers take some of the places in between the integers: <---+--+--+--+--+--+--+---> 1 1 1 2 - - 6 2 In fact, the rational numbers take a lot of places: <---+-----+-----+-----+---> 649 650 651 652 --- --- --- --- 673 673 673 673 In fact, given two rational numbers, you can always find another rational number in between them. (Can you see why that's true?) But even so, there are still some spaces left over. In between any two rational numbers, there is at least one other number that isn't rational. These are numbers like pi, and e, and the square root of 2. So, one way to conceptualize these 'nonsensical' numbers is to think of them as the numbers that 'fill up' the spaces between the numbers that 'make sense'. For many everyday applications, you're right to think that the difference between '0.3333333333333' and '0.333...' is insignificant. If I'm sawing boards to build a house, the difference between 33/100 and 1/3 is unimportant. If I'm hollowing out the barrel of a gun, the difference between 3333/10000 and 1/3 is unimportant. However, with the development of chaos theory, and the realization that very small changes in initial conditions can lead to arbitrarily large changes in final conditions, it's not always clear when it's okay to ignore small differences. Perhaps more to the point, it's important to remember that mathematicians are basically playing a game called 'mathematics', and in this game, the difference between finding an exact result and finding an approximation, no matter how close, is like the difference between hitting or missing the bullseye with an arrow. No matter how close the arrow gets to the bullseye, if it's out, it's out. So, one way to answer your question is to say that whether these numbers 'make sense' or whether they are 'worth acknowledging' depends on exactly what game you're playing. I hope this helps. Be sure to write back if I didn't address your concerns, or if you just have other questions. - Doctor Ian, The Math Forum http://mathforum.org/dr.math/ Date: 08/24/99 at 17:38:17 From: Kiki Nwasokwa Subject: Re: Nonsensical numbers I realize that repeating decimals are the numbers that "fill the spaces" between terminating decimals, but how did people discover that they repeated? What does it mean for a number to be repeating? Is it kind of like moving toward a wall but moving half your previous distance each time? For example, with 4.3333..., is one moving three tenths of the way toward 5, then only three hundredths of the way, then only three thousands, then only three ten-thousandths, then only three hundred-thousandths, then only three millionths, then only...? Date: 08/25/99 at 22:02:33 From: Doctor Ian Subject: Re: Nonsensical numbers Hi Kiki, Try dividing 1 by 3, and see what happens. After a while, you'll see a pattern. That's how repeating decimals were discovered. Your interpretation is correct - each decimal place that you add moves you a little closer toward the theoretical limit (1/3), but you never get all the way there until you add an infinite number of decimal places. What you really want to know, I think, is how limits work, which is a deep question. Limits are probably the closest thing to magic in mathematics. They were used for a long time as a useful problem- solving technique, even before anyone was able to provide them with a sound theoretical basis (in the form of the 'epsilon-delta' proofs that you'll see when you take a course in real analysis). Even now, they retain a faint air of paradox. I think you would probably have a lot of fun working through a good textbook on real analysis. You might also enjoy Richard Courant's book, _What is Mathematics?_. - Doctor Ian, The Math Forum http://mathforum.org/dr.math/ |
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