Talk:Mobius Strip

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Htasoff 14:39, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Video removed due to copy right issues.

Contents

Basic Description

  • "if perpendicular arrows were drawn in the surface to the surface pointing upward, moving them along specific paths in the shape would return them to the starting point as a mirror image of the position they were in when they began."

xd 14:56, 22 June 2011 (UTC) You need to explain this better with a picture. Also the sentence is awkward. I cannot picture the arrows simply with these. Make sure you mean exactly what you mean when you say "drawn IN the surface". Define "specific paths". Do you mean they end up at a position that is the "mirror image (about what? the strip? or the path) of the position" they started with OR the arrows end up as the "mirror image" of themselves. The bubble for "perpendicular" is not very necessary. * Rebecca 22:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC) No comma after that in the sentence "Being non-orientable means that, if..."

  • Also, I agree with XD. The sentence is confusing, and a picture will help.
  • Is it true that the edge can be referred to as a circle? If a circle is "highly distorted" is it still a circle? (This is a question because I don't actually have any idea).
  • CHECK
  • Rebecca 01:32, 12 July 2011 (UTC) Technically shouldn't be capitalized.

More Mathematical Description

*Rebecca 23:23, 27 June 2011 (UTC) I thought this section was good. I think the descriptions under the images are cool.

Why It's Interesting

  • Rebecca 23:23, 27 June 2011 (UTC) You could try to embed of a movie of someone playing with a mobius strip in the . I think this would be a great addition to the page. There was one originally, but I had to take it down due to copyright issues.
  • Rebecca 01:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC) Is there another one you could use? Or are they all protected?

Applications

  • Rebecca 01:29, 12 July 2011 (UTC) I think the applications section would be more appropriately titled "Mobius strips in the real world" or something along those lines. "Applications" makes me think you're going to talk about applying the content of the page to problems.
  • When you talk about Escher's picture, why not include it? It's a very cool picture.

Old Comments

Abram 7/7

Nice job with the edits. So to clarify the bit I explained to you a bit confusingly before, if you look at your description of Experiment #2, you write, "In general we would expect... But this is not so with the Mobius strip". I was thinking the first two paragraphs could be structured that same way, for example:

Normally, surfaces have two sides. You could paint each side of a (hollow) sphere or a rubber band a different color. But if you take a rectangular strip of paper and... you get something that doesn't follow that rule...

But you could ignore this suggestion too, and I think it's ready for public.

The one change I made to the page was rewriting "A Mobius strip has a non-orientable surface" as "A Mobius strip is a non orientable surface."

Lizah 7/7

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the suggestions. I corrected all the typos you pointed out and effected most of the changes you suggested.

//I would title the first section Mobius Strip. A comma is needed after “also referred to as a Mobius band”.//

ok

//I would take out “we” in initial explanation. For example, “Take a rectangular strip of paper. Make a half twist and join the ends. The result is a Mobius strip."//

I sought a third opinion on this because I felt like saying "take a rectangular..." would sound a bit imperative and distant. On the other hand, starting with "If we..." kind of includes the reader. I'll seek more opinions on this.

//Basic Description: "but on the opposite side of the paper". If it's at the same point, how can it be on the opposite side?// I put opposite in quotation marks to imply that opposite does not exactly mean oppostie in this case, but more like the other side of the paper (though by definition, the Mobius strip technically has no other side)

//You title this "strange properties" but then make only one statement before the four experiments. The ant sentence relates to the first experiment, which then hangs alone since the other three experiments directly follow.// I changed the first sentence altogether so that it introduces the video instead.

//Is there a graphic that can help demonstrate its use in resistors, etc.?//

So far I haven't found one, but I'll keep looking.

//Applications should be a topic on its own, not a part of “A more mathematical explanation.//

I got rid of the section "a more mathematical explanation" because the Mobius strip has no really intimidating hard math.

//Were there other artists you found that used them as well? Otherwise, cite only M.C. Escher.//

Martin Gardner wrote an amusing short story based on the Mobius strip called "No-sided Professor." I'll mention him too.

Thanks again for the helpful suggestions you put forth

Abram 7/7

Really nice job with the edits. I won't address them one by one because they're all great. I agree with Chris's suggestions, and I think they should be easy to implement.

I have three more suggestions, two of which I feel strongly about and one of which is less important (the less important one is at the end).

  • I'm glad you decided to put just about everything in the basic description. The parametrization section, though, should be relegated to a section titled "A more mathematical description."
  • In your description of experiment 1, mention that you already referred to this property in your opening paragraphs (just to really make it clear how central this feature is).
  • The opening paragraphs are great, except that I think they could do a better job emphasizing how weird a Mobius strip is. I can imagine someone reading, "Logically, this is only possible..." and not registering, "Hey, that's really bizarre." One way to change the emphasis would be to begin this section by describing how "normal" shapes like spheres and rubber bands have two sides. This will set up a contrast with the Mobius strip. But there are all sorts of other ways to build in this emphasis as well.

Chris Taranta 7/6

This is a really fun topic that is accessible even to younger students, making it more likely they’ll stick with the math. Nice job on this.

I would title the first section Mobius Strip. A comma is needed after “also referred to as a Mobius band”.

I would take out “we” in initial explanation. For example, “Take a rectangular strip of paper. Make a half twist and join the ends. The result is a Mobius strip."

Basic Description: "but on the opposite side of the paper". If it's at the same point, how can it be on the opposite side?

Strange Properties The four experiments from the video form the content for this section. Your introductory sentence refers to only one of them. I would instead have the first sentence set up the video. Credit for video?

You title this "strange properties" but then make only one statement before the four experiments. The ant sentence relates to the first experiment, which then hangs alone since the other three experiments directly follow.

⁋1 Sentence 3: “the tape” replaces “he tape” Sentence 4: Is there a graphic that can help demonstrate its use in resistors, etc.?

⁋2 Sentence 1: “M.C. Escher” replaces “MC. Escther”. Were there other artists you found that used them as well? Otherwise, cite only M.C. Escher.

⁋3 I would not use the word “also” here. I’d simply begin with “The universal…”

Applications should be a topic on its own, not a part of “A more mathematical explanation.”


Lizah 7/4

Hey Anna,

I effected the changes you suggested. Could you please take a look again?

Anna 7/4

Hi Lizah,

I have a few comments. I'd really like to see the "strange properties" moved up to the basic description section. Also, I do think that it would flow much better if you put the experiment results immediately after the descriptions/numbering. Right now that's a little disjointed.

I'll look at it again after you make those changes.

Lizah 7/1

Hey Abram and Anna,

Thanks once again for the helpful suggestions. //You have these cool YouTube experiments that you describe in words. In your textual description of each experiment, say which experiment number in the video that textual description corresponds to//

This was also suggested during my meeting with Gene and Anna. I just put the experiment numbers and a brief description of what is going on in each experiment next to the video. In the paragraph that follows the video, I describe the results of each experiment.

//[this sentence you already have in the basic description]//

I see what you mean. I'll get rid of it to avoid unecessary repitition.

//Move everything except the parametrization to the basic description. It's really cool stuff that can be easily understood without knowing any fancy math.//

I'm still debating about this because of the issue of how long should the basic decription be. You're probably familiar with Gene's emaphasis on really short basic descriptions, but at the same time, if it is really something 'fancy', why not put it in the basic description? I'll seek a third opinion on these.

//Move the bit about the ant needing to walk around twice to the first paragraph, because this is one of the central features of a Mobius strip//

ok

//u and v are described accurately or a bit confusingly in your parametrization. u represents position along the length of the strip from the arbitrary "starting point" along the x-axis. this is slightly different from your current "u describes the length of the strip", because the length of the strip is a property of the strip as a whole, and is equal to 2*pi, while position along the length of the strip varies from point to point. A similar change in the description of v would be helpful.//

I changed the wording. Please chheck it out. I hope it makes it clearer.

//In your two sentence description, can you maybe include a mouse over for what you mean by "true surface"? It's unclear what you mean.//

I got rid of that sentence altogether. I realize that my meaning is clearer without it.


//I'd cut out the phrase "in very light words." Can you add the recycling sign next to where you mention it?//


Duly done. We talked about this in our meeting.

Thanks for the suggestions


Abram 7/1

The page looks great. I have several suggestions, but most of them should be pretty quick to implement.

  • Move everything except the parametrization to the basic description. It's really cool stuff that can be easily understood without knowing any fancy math.

. One way to do this is to write something like:

If we were to draw a line through the centre of the strip without lifting the pencil off the paper, we would come back to the starting point but on the opposite side of the paper [this sentence you already have in the basic description]. Your pencil point would have to go around the strip two full times before it returned to its original position.
  • You have these cool YouTube experiments that you describe in words. In your textual description of each experiment, say which experiment number in the video that textual description corresponds to.

One important mathematical detail:

  • u and v are described accurately or a bit confusingly in your parametrization. u represents position along the length of the strip from the arbitrary "starting point" along the x-axis. this is slightly different from your current "u describes the length of the strip", because the length of the strip is a property of the strip as a whole, and is equal to 2*pi, while position along the length of the strip varies from point to point. A similar change in the description of v would be helpful.
  • It may be helpful to mention that u also represents angle from the positive x-axis.

Anna 6/26

In your two sentence description, can you maybe include a mouse over for what you mean by "true surface"? It's unclear what you mean. Your explanation in the "mathematical description" section is very good, though.

I'd cut out the phrase "in very light words."

Can you add the recycling sign next to where you mention it?

David 6/25

I realize you are still working on this page, but I love mobius strips so much I had to check it out.

A couple of things; can you find an animation that will show how a mobius strip has only one side? Also for the cutting explanations can you find an animation that will show that as well,it is difficult to imagine what you are talking about because the mobius strip itself is counterintuitive and then when you slice it up it is even more complex to grasp.

Lizah 6/26

Thanks for the suggestion David. I agree with you that picturing the properties of a Mobius strip can be somewhat difficult but I found this cool youtube video that illustrates all the properties described. You can check it out! And please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are necessary on the page.
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