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Topic: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
Replies: 102   Last Post: Apr 18, 2013 12:26 AM

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Virgil

Posts: 9,012
Registered: 1/6/11
Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Posted: Mar 16, 2013 12:31 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

In article <2PmdnVr_oN8JXd7MnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
fom <fomJUNK@nyms.net> wrote:

> On 3/15/2013 7:28 PM, Virgil wrote:
> > In article <wNednaCf1baoKN7MnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> > fom <fomJUNK@nyms.net> wrote:
> >

> >> On 3/15/2013 3:01 PM, Virgil wrote:
> >>> In article
> >>> <c4fcdc68-76bb-4df0-a2f5-73d117d0b98c@m4g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>,
> >>> WM <mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:
> >>>

> >>>> On 14 Mrz., 23:54, fom <fomJ...@nyms.net> wrote:
> >>>>> On 3/14/2013 5:47 PM, WM wrote:
> >>>>>

> >>>>>> On 14 Mrz., 23:16, fom <fomJ...@nyms.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> "... an element of T is not a set..."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Let T = {{a}, {b,c}, {c,d,e,f}}
> >>>>>> then T has three elements, each of which is a set. That is common use
> >>>>>> in modern set theory and has been used 100 years ago in the same sense
> >>>>>> by Zermelo.

> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am well aware of modern usage.

> >>>>
> >>>> Zermelo used it already 100 years ago.

> >>>>>
> >>>>> Unless my translation is in error, Zermelo's
> >>>>> 1908 supports urelements.

> >>>>
> >>>> Zermelo says (in your translation on p. 210, 3rd line): If T is a set
> >>>> whose elements M, N, R, ... all are sets different from the null
> >>>> set, ...

> >>>
> >>> That, even if accurate, in no way refutes that Zermelo allowed sets to
> >>> contain ur-elements. In fact, it supports ur-elements, as otherwise
> >>> there would be no reason to specify that those elements all are sets.

> >>
> >> It is not accurate. That is where Zermelo is explaining the
> >> "general principle of choice". The beginning of the paper in
> >> which the domain description is given is on page 201.

> >
> > In other words, WM is quote mining again: isolating quotes from their
> > contexts in such a way as to misled readers of those quotes or their
> > original meanings.

>
> But, everyone does that somewhat.


Not everyone does it to reverse the original sense.
>
> If you need to look to historical papers, you are
> looking for a reason unless your interest is history.
>
> It is easy to see that WM's interests do not lie
> with the definition of the domain. So, he is not
> necessarily so clear about the material to which
> I referred and its significance to what I had
> made correction to your statement.
>
> That does not address continually choosing to
> not actually read the cited references for
> accuracy, however.
>
> p. 201

--




Date Subject Author
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
Alan Smaill
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/19/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
4/17/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
4/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/18/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
Ralf Bader
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/15/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/14/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
3/16/13
Read Re: Matheology � 223: AC and AMS
Virgil
3/17/13
Read Re: Matheology § 223: AC and AMS
fom

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