Joe Niederberger posted Jul 5, 2013 11:04 PM (GSC's response follows): > G S Chandy says: > >For instance you claim (something to the following > >effect): "I haven't got the vaguest of notions from > >this discussion ....". > >I agree. > >In the main, I'd guess that is BECAUSE we're using an > >inappropriate 'language vehicle' for the discussion. > > No, its because you are completely unwilling to stay > on point. > > Do you want to discuss math and logic? Or foundations > of math? Or ps+g? Or the problems of the man on the > street? Or the causes of war? (And on and on and > on...) > A: 'Math' and 'logic' are strongly dependent (I believe) on the 'foundations of math (and logic and philosophy)'.
B: The 'foundations of math (and logic and philosophy)' - as well as the way we use logic and math - strongly influence the way we tackle a great many issues we confront, in practice on the ground.
C: The mode of discussion strongly influences the effectiveness of any discussion conducted. The 'pure prose' mode of discussion is clearly shown to be ineffective in many ways. This is clearly demonstrated at practically every forum for discussion.
'Prose + structural graphics' (p+sg - NOT ps+g) helps, in many ways, to overcome many of the weaknesses of discussions in 'pure prose' - some of these weaknesses have been pointed to in various posts of mine.
(I don't know anything called "ps+g". If that is something you know about that may be useful, do please let us know what it may be).
D: The 'problems of the man on the street' are rarely if ever tackled effectively - instances are everywhere. I claim this is, to a very sizable extent, because of the ineffectiveness of the way we discuss the issues we confront.
Effective discussion of issues WOULD CONTRIBUTE significantly to progress in the way we tackle them. Ineffective discussion of issues CONTRIBUTES significantly to LACK of progress in the way we tackle those issues.
One major 'problem of the man on the street' is the high ineffectiveness of our education systems. Improving the effectiveness of our education systems WOULD CONTRIBUTE significantly to helping tackle a host of other 'problems of the man on the street'.
E: 'Causes of war' - see 'D' above. (Likewise, other societal issues we confront). [Typo corrected here, later. Earier I had written, see 'C' above].
It's all 'on topic'. It's ALL concerned with trying to improve the way we think about and discuss the issues we may confront, and (via democratic discussion about them) tackle them.
By the way, you forgot 'systems': I claim that we need to make widely available - and use in practice - an effective 'systems approach' to tackle the variety of problems we confront. That is the point and, in fact, it is the whole issue.
If you are unable to understand the above 'train of thought', I'm surprised - but OK. I guess that MUST demonstrate something.