Date: Nov 15, 2000 8:21 AM
Author: Michael Paul Goldenberg
Subject: Re: Count all the votes

on 11/15/00 7:51 AM, karen jones at wrote:

> Victor Steinbok wrote:
>> <I have deleted all but Greg Goodknight and Gerald Von Korff email
>> addresses from the CC list>
>> Greg wrote:

>>> How many times should each vote be counted? Every Florida precinct has had
>>> at least two full counts; some have already been counted four times.

>> Curiously, each time the stack was recounted, new votes were discovered.
>> Apparently some of these ballots have NOT been counted four times,
>> otherwise the count would not have changed.

>>> How has it been proven that the hand count is more accurate than the machine
>>> count when the vote is contained on a paper punch card with no particular
>>> features?

>> Having witnessed Greg Goodknight shill out propaganda of his own, why am
>> not surprised to find him swallowing the Republican Party absurd
>> propaganda? The idiocy of this question and its underlying assumption
>> can be demonstrated very easily: remember Minnesota? remember New York?
>> remember Indiana? remember Scotland? I am sure there were many more
>> machine counting fiascoes (Harcourt paid back California how many
>> millions of dollars for their testing errors?), but these four in
>> particular stand out as monuments to the dangers of standardized testing
>> and machine tabulations of scores. It is ironic that there is a link
>> between Bush's stance on standardized testing and his stance on the vote
>> recount (neither one is really Bush, but who is counting?!)
>> Greg, don't forget that the machines are designed by humans, programmed
>> by humans and tuned and cleaned by humans. If errors are made along the
>> way in machine design and maintenance, the result is an error of far
>> greater proportion than anything a single manual counter can create.
>> Besides, what would the "Founding Fathers" say? Did THEY have computers
>> to tabulate their votes? (BTW, New Hampshire counts ALL its votes by
>> hand and it has done so for the past century.)
>> VS-)

> Victor, Jerry, et. al.,
> Is the name of this forum "mathforum" or "politicalforum"? Is it not
> bad enough that our beliefs about what is right for our kids regarding
> math differs so fundamentally? Must you all make the divide so much
> deeper and wider that all hopes of discourse that could lead to any kind
> of progress or understanding are dashed?
> Political beliefs run far deeper than whether ballots should be
> recounted, how to do so, and, by the way, where do you stop? You all
> know that the "chad challenged" live in only heavily democratic
> counties. Or do they? This is nothing short of partisan shrewdness.
> Whether I like it or not, I tip my hat to it because of its sheer
> brilliance. However, your belief as to whether this is constitutional
> or not depends on your fundamental belief as to what has and will make
> America great. That is the essence of our political divide, or at least
> it should be.
> You guys cannot agree on what math will serve our children the best,
> much less be civil about it . How could any of you hope to offer
> discourse about politics that is anything but caustic and meaningless?
> I am sure that we have both sides (or more) of the political spectrum
> represented on this list. Don't give our divide yet another dimension
> that could further compromise our ability to further our original
> purpose.
> Karen Jones-Budd

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Michael Paul Goldenberg Washtenaw Technical Middle College
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"Truth is a mobile army of metaphors." Friedrich Nietzsche