Date: Dec 4, 2012 4:06 PM
Author: Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway
Subject: Re: Stephen Fry does something no human has ever done before

"Mahipal"  wrote in message 
news:a1e573e6-3677-4639-ab36-3742face2f2f@r4g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...

On Dec 3, 4:33 pm, "Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway"
<LordAndroc...@December2012.org> wrote:
> "Mahipal" wrote in message
>
> news:b88347c1-fab4-4fe6-a3f3-ceef5381950b@f17g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
>


[trim]

> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Lobachevsky
> > ==========================================
> > I seem to have invited a digression into piling up real bricks rather
> > than
> > the architecture of a luminosity curve. One side of Androcles' Triangle
> > has dimension time. I'll try to respect your knowledge of mathematics
> > while remaining sceptical of the meaning of m (for magnitude) in
> >http://www.britastro.org/vss/gifc/00918-ck.gif
> > JD is Julian Date, btw.

>
> O, my confusion, that's simple to explain. I just did not pay serious
> attention to the link address initially. Should have, but I did not. I
> saw the pretty graph a week prior, then later read your reference of
> time contracting and expanding, a very neat idea that, and just jumped
> to conclude m was a time axis too and wrote minutes rather than, say,
> microseconds. I know better now and still curious regards the idea.
>
> ===============================================================
> Were it possible to see the orbit of V1493 Aql (which of course it isn't
> due to the enormous distance involved) one would see the star approach,
> then
> recede, then approach again. One can only see it by modelling it
> mathematically. The velocity curve has a retrograde loop. I created a
> spreadsheet to demonstrate this. If you have spreadsheet capability it can
> be downloaded fromhttp://androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Lightcurve.xls
> where you can adjust the orbital parameters and see the effect they make.
> It is essential to set cell Q2 to 0 as values 1, 2, 3 are preset values
> used
> to demonstrate the other star types.
> (If you don't have spreadsheet capability you can obtain Open Office free
> fromhttp://ninite.com/or pay Microsoft rupees in the plural for Excel).
> I warn you that creating a Keplerian Orbit with a spreadsheet is a
> non-trivial task.


I have Excel and Open Office. Will play with your demonstration asap.
However, I can discuss physics without needing to resort to Excel.
Equations alone are more than adequate. Derivations of equations from
equations, are to love the math for.

=========================================================
Kepler's equation has no analytical solution, it is can only be solved
numerically.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/KeplersEquation.html
M = E - e.sin(E)
E = M + e.sin(E)
E = M + e.sin(M + e.sin(E))
E = M + e.sin(M + e.sin(M + e.sin(M + e.sin(M + e.sin(M + e.sin(...))))))
12 iterations gives a reasonable accuracy.

Real light curves cannot be modelled without Kepler.
Equations alone are far from adequate.




> > > Similar light curves have the same ratio of distance, period and
> > > orbital
> > > attitude. If I knew the distance and the orbital attitude I could
> > > compute
> > > the period, but I
> > > don't.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrietta_Swan_Leavitt
> > > Henrietta Swan Leavitt worked with approximately similar light curves
> > > that
> > > had approximately similar periods. From that she obtained approximate
> > > distances. Cepheids are now thought of as "standard candles" to find
> > > approximate distances.

>
> > > This phenomena must be independent of any supernova activity.
> > > ====================================================
> > > Recurrent novae are not supernovae. The Crab really is an exploding
> > > star,
> > > a supernova.

>
> > Not sure how I got thinking supernova in this thread. Anyway, your
> > proposition is clearly a basic speed of light plus or minus the source
> > speed issue. Let's just focus on the principle from now on. You do
> > realize if I pursued such thoughts in any Liberal Arts Academia, that
> > I likely wouldn't get a passing enough grade to return for the next
> > semester? Might even get me banned from some websites of late.
> > ======================================================
> > Do you care?

>
> That's like... Is the cat in the box both dead and alive?
>

> > If so just tell them Einstein said
> > "But the ray moves relatively to the initial point of k, when measured
> > in
> > the stationary system, with the velocity c-v, so that t = x'/(c-v) "
> > <http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/figures/img31.gif>
> > Who am I (or you) to challenge the great Ayatollah Saint Einstein?

>
> Ayatollah Relativist Saint Einstein (ARSE)?
> =========================================
> Appropriate acronym, but it's actually Ayatollah Rabbi Saint Einstein
> to include Islam, Judaism and Xtianity into the religion of Relativity.
> He was after all of Jewish origin. One could give him more titles but
> the world has far too many religions. With Cha-cha-hanson taking his
> extreme umbrage against Jews I didn't want to appear as an anti-Semite,
> I'm no racist but merely anti-religion.


In Usenet archives, there's a thought experiment named, not by me, The
Law of the Conservation of Reason. Search for it. If I find it, I will
post its link.

> No, I know I care more
> about the Universe than anyone who isn't actually Planck as in
> E=hf. Also, any website that would ban people from asking certain
> questions of science, is really not worth the being a member at. Same
> for any Academia that refuses to be open minded about rational
> questions or is actual science history challenged. Curriculum based
> contents, in general, also get repetitive tiring. Yawn.
>
> OTOH, I do care. When in 1988 or so, as a young impressionable
> motivated graduate student, I sat in Charles Misner's office, him too
> busy too preoccupied and not really contemplating my one page of
> writing, all he said or asked was, "How can poetry be wrong?!'' after
> I asked him "Is this wrong?'' So, I have my books and my own poetry
> to protect me. I care, but I do not worry.
>
> http://www.physics.umd.edu/grt/people/charles.html
>
> ===============================================
> At Sussex U I offered to buy Hawking a beer as it was my shout, but his
> (first) wife declined on his behalf and wheeled his gurney away. He's
> not a true Englishman, turning down a free beer is incredible here. His
> wife haughtily asked "Do you know who this is?" to which I honestly
> replied "Nope, we haven't been introduced. Would you like a drink?"
> He was only poaching students to take to Cambridge anyway.
> Perhaps I should have asked her first.


Guys like Hawking are too busy projecting their own ideas, needlessly
challenging religion(s), then correcting them, then recorrecting them.
On and on. Not likely he will have the mindset to listen to anyone
else. When I sent my idea to him for a comment, I got a form letter
back, and it indicated that he thought I was a girl. Nothing more.

> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_Nebula
> > > It is my opinion that SN 1987A is a collision of two stars.
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A

>
> > > I say this because they have very different spatial distributions of
> > > debris. A sudden brightening of light can have many causes.

>
> > > > Why do you conclude that this is a elliptical orbit binary system?
> > > > Isn't this the kind of detail Astronomers determine before the
> > > > Farmers
> > > > keep insisting the rocks really fell out of the sky -- all the while
> > > > getting mocked by the Astronomers?
> > > > =======================================================
> > > > A star with a planet is not called a binary system and I didn't.
> > > > However, all planets have elliptical orbits. The Moon has an
> > > > elliptical
> > > > orbit. The Earth has an elliptical orbit about the barycentre it
> > > > shares
> > > > with the Moon. That barycentre is a 1000 miles beneath our feet.
> > > > If the mathematics of elliptical orbits were not known no probe
> > > > would
> > > > ever reach Mars.

>
> > > Ok, a supernova star with a planet, rather than a binary stellar
> > > system. Actually my knowledge of planetary orbital dynamics is quite
> > > good. Was the V1493Aql planet's orbit already known, pre the double
> > > peaked brightness curve? Or, did you use the twice peaked light curve
> > > to estimate the planet's orbit?
> > > ====================================================
> > > Again, a star with a planet, not a supernova with a planet.
> > > No planetary orbits are known, and certainly not for distant stars.
> > > V 1493 Aql has a magnitude of 16, which is incredibly faint. Any
> > > magnitude beyond about 6 is not visible to the naked eye.
> > > A telescope is essential.

>
> > I do and did presume all V 1493 Aql measurements are made by
> > professional astronomical telescopes and Astronomers. Forgive me Lord
> > if I have sinned.
> > ============================================
> > You are forgiven, my son. Your sin is your presumption, a crime against
> > mathematics where all must be proven from the accepted axioms.
> > For your penance say three Hail De Morgans.
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Morgan's_laws

>
> > The naked eye sky visibility is nil to foggy from
> > where I gaze, so rarely, if ever, up. My eyes are no competetion to
> > the all encompassing spectrum spanning telescopes deployed the Earth
> > over. Our surveillance spans the Universe, not just my NIMBY windows.

>
> > ======================================================
> > We must see with the mind, for the speed of light and great distance
> > deceives the eye.

>
> "Thinking is the best to travel'' sang The Moody Blues.
>

[trim]
> > > ==============================================
> > > In my opinion the loss was more a result of conquest than failing to
> > > grasp
> > > the mathematics. A device such as the Antikythera mechanism, sunk by
> > > a Roman trireme, why would a Greek give away such a wonderful device
> > > to
> > > an
> > > enemy who wasn't listening anyway?
> > > Navigation by the stars and planets, that's a trade secret and a
> > > commercial
> > > advantage. One does not teach his enemy mathematics when his town has
> > > been
> > > raped and pillaged, even assuming he's still alive to do so.

>
> > When the Library of Alexandria in Egypt was demolished and burned,
> > accidentally or otherwise in 48BC, thanks to Julius Caesar, it is very
> > Very VERY likely the competent Teachers died en masse too. So, not
> > only did the Teachers not willingly give away the knowledge trade
> > secrets, they weren't likely deemed relevant enough even to be asked
> > anythink before being killed. Savages first. Ho hum.

>
> > ========================================
> > Quite so, and it has only been 80 generations (at four generations per
> > century) since the Roman Senate savages whelped Hillary Cleopatra
> > Clinton,
> > Queen of the Potomac.
> > As one ages how one realises what a short time that is and how little
> > the
> > savages have changed.

>
> Yes, that's a sad realization but one has to accept it as truth.


[trim]
> > ================================================
> > My father was Welsh (Cymru), my mother English. The Cymru settled in
> > Britain
> > as the ice receded 11,000 years ago.
> > Rome was the first invader (that we know of) who pushed the natives back
> > into the mountains followed by Northern Europeans that became the
> > English
> > and did the same. The English are a mix of Romans, Vikings, Germans
> > from
> > Saxony, French, you name it, a melting pot as much as the Americans.
> > The
> > Roman/English/American Empire is over, the Chinese and Indian Empires
> > just
> > beginning.

>
> The Earth, with its plate tectonics, was lucky to have appropriately
> placed Mount Everest in order to historically prevent too many war
> like collisions between China and India. Humans are feigning to be a
> bit wiser now, and trying hard to cohabitate on this Island in a sea
> of unreachable galaxies. Or is that hardly trying?
> =======================================================
> Humanity is motivated by greed using religion as an excuse. "Divide and
> conquer" works best when the conquered are already divided. British
> railway engineering united India, American Indians fought among
> themselves.


There are only two types of people, The Divided and The Conquerors.

> > > [trim]
>
> > > > Nobody took and held on to your, or mine, passport. Yet the act
> > > > happens daily to other less fortunate working class people in the
> > > > international realm.
> > > > =================================================
> > > > But legally. Uncle Sam takes your taxes and hold on to it, it should
> > > > be
> > > > illegal for anyone to steal your money. Yet the act happens daily to
> > > > fortunate business class people in the national realm.
> > > > Hey, let's make taxes voluntary like pledges to PBS. Those that want
> > > > an army to defend everyone should pay for it, those that don't
> > > > shouldn't
> > > > listen to classical music on the radio. I'm all for this what's
> > > > legal
> > > > what's illegal argument, we can pay lawyers instead of taxes and if
> > > > that doesn't work the way I want it to, shoot each other.

>
> > > Let's presume legally, for the sake of faking having faith in fellow
> > > humans.
> > > ============================
> > > As long as you are only faking I'll go along with it. The devil has an
> > > advocate.

>
> > You are such a joy to interact with Lord John. Salute!
> > ==============================================
> > When one teaches, two learn. The joy is reciprocated. Salute!

>
[trim]
>
> > Soon, to find a workaround for the trainees or the all too competent
> > Customs' crooks, the green lane will likely go the dodo bird away
> > entirely and they'll automatically scan plus x-ray all contents within
> > suitcases. With the old all pervasive, ever present, all things are
> > property of the State principle, justification. Trust not, verify all.
> > Big Brother is busy advancing perfecting stalking. Pretty confident
> > that when women get breast implants, to enhance their entrapment
> > capabilities, the left and right ones have unique RFID transmitters
> > constantly beckoning.
> > ======================================
> > Interesting. You mean tattoos labeling them "Mild Ale" and "Bitter"
> > won't be appealing?

>
> I am not at all fond of tattoos, only temporary henna ones might be
> acceptable by me. What they dispense is refillable changeable? Very
> interesting. Did not know such technology had progressed along those
> lines. Perhaps it's real time I did look for a girl friend once again.
>
> ========================================================
> Hmm... The tattooed jugs I saw were on a hooker. Hookers are cheaper than
> wives and girl friends.


Having recently acquired a Xwife, I can verify that as painful but
true reality. The battle of the sexes is waged daily, and the women
are apparently and shamelessly in it for only the money. In the USA
women sisters have also conspired to make hooking illegal. It's a lose-
lose situation for the men. Beam me up Scott(y)! Please hurry.

[trim]

> Usenet posts repeat cycle seems to be two weeks to about a month.
> =======================================================
> There is another cycle, an annual one at the beginning of the school year.
>

> > > -- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
> > > Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway

>
> Enjo(y)...
> --
> Mahipalhttp://mahipal7638.wordpress.com/meforce/
>
> I may be having less time to interact here on Usenet, I have to get my
> life back on track. Going through a routine background check even as I
> do not real time tweet. I do have an account, that's got to look
> good...
> ===========================================
> Do what ya gotta do and good luck. I'll still be here.


Thanks! I will read only, since writing takes time, which I won't
have.

> -- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
> Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway


Can you elaborate, it seems incomplete, or I cannot readily see its
association, on your comment on my meforce website:

"Actually it was
As the electron is to be slowly accelerated, and consequently may not
give off any energy in the form of radiation, the energy withdrawn
from the electrostatic field must be put down as equal to the energy
of motion W of the electron. Bearing in mind that during the whole
process of motion which we are considering, the first of the equations
(A) applies, we therefore obtain

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/figures/img157.gif"

================================================
It is the forerunner of E = mc^2.
W is work, which has the same units as energy and was typically used
to mean the same thing. If you roll a ball uphill it gains the energy to
fall
back that is equivalent to the work you did rolling it uphill. Put a hammer
on the shelf in the garage, it has enough energy to break your toe if the
cat knocks it off. You did the work lifting it to the shelf. E = 1/2 mv^2.

W = mc^2 { 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) - 1}
Multiply that out,
W = mc^2/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) - mc^2

mc^2 is the rest mass multiplied c^2. The extra part, mc^2/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
is the word done in accelerating the electron to velocity v (according to
Einstein).
So rather than POSTULATING E = mc^2 as you claimed, he did actually
calculate it.

Actually it was there all the time once conservation of momentum is taken
into account.
http://androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/MC2.htm

-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway